Kat’s Wolf Womp womp, you have died

[Zell 17]

But the point is you shouldn't have shot when you did, and likely not the night after as well. That would result in you still being alive to vote.

Dean also shouldn't have used his kill on me (or anyone yet), which would have resulted in me still being alive to vote.

We're down two extra votes because people wanted to act fast.


Edit: we're also down kill shots because people wanted to act fast. Now it's a "lynch perfectly through the end of the game" in order to win situation.

They shouldn’t have used their kills on you, but if you’d have just claimed tough guy you probably live. The other benefit to claiming. If the wolves waste their berserk to single kill a tough guy that’s their loss.

Villagers needed to claim day 1 ESPECIALLY in a game with confusion wolf and no medium. Now the wolves can just claim tough guy with no counter.

 

[TD]

If the wolves waste their berserk to single kill a tough guy that’s their loss.

Except when it works.

 

[Smacktard]

Zell pretty much spelled out to everyone that he was the Evil Detective though.

This doesn't make sense. I don't think his intent was to tell everyone he was the evil detective, and in fact he actively fought back against people implying that he was SK posing as spirit seer. He was trying to curry favor with the town by giving accurate reads, trying to appear as a townie. He could've just as easily been a wolf pretending to be spirit seer because a wolf would have virtually the same information anyway.

Except there is. It's been proven time and time again that behaviour reading and cold reads are a perfectly viable strategy in the hands of a strong player.

Maybe cold reads work for individuals, but the difficulty is getting the rest of the town to buy into those reads. People tend not to act in groups unless they have actionable info. We saw it the last game -- Tommy was a seer role, and people refused to act without him calling the shots.

The benefit to claiming seer day 1 is the same as claiming any other role: it helps the town by narrowing town possibilities. I would do the same as a legit spirit seer, because if I don’t give me info and I die it’s lost forever. And then jawneh gets lynched after I had info that he was innocent.

But it makes you a target for that night (if it were true), which limits future opportunities to provide actionable info.

 

[TD]

This doesn't make sense. I don't think his intent was to tell everyone he was the evil detective, and in fact he actively fought back against people implying that he was SK posing as spirit seer. He was trying to curry favor with the town by giving accurate reads, trying to appear as a townie. He could've just as easily been a wolf pretending to be spirit seer because a wolf would have virtually the same information anyway.

Of course he's not going to explicitly tell people he's the Evil Detective, but read between the lines.

- Night 0, only the SK kills, Zell rushes out early to provide a double blue read and try to bait the Priest into hitting him, this should have been the single biggest red flag (SK is the only one who could fake SS here unless wolves knew SK)
- Zell points out at some point that it's either the Serial Killer or Evil Detective
- Zell literally explicitly tells everyone that he loves the idea of the SK faking Spirit Seer
- Nobody dies to SK, yet now Zell has a red read? A simple glance at the ED role description could've figured this out
- Zell's insistent poking for the Priest to make a move

Then again - this is the same guy who had the animal tell and everyone knew it was him but they just let him be.

 

[TD]

What do we think the odds are that someone goes and reads the ED role to find out both Jon & cg are wolves (assuming Zell was telling the truth about who he checked).

 

[TD]

Oh hey look a second Marksman!

 

[TD]

Tubby is wolf #4 isn't he lmao.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

They shouldn’t have used their kills on you, but if you’d have just claimed tough guy you probably live. The other benefit to claiming. If the wolves waste their berserk to single kill a tough guy that’s their loss.

Villagers needed to claim day 1 ESPECIALLY in a game with confusion wolf and no medium. Now the wolves can just claim tough guy with no counter.

I subtly claimed it when I responded to you saying there wouldn't be a tough guy report after the first night.

 

[Zell 17]

What do we think the odds are that someone goes and reads the ED role to find out both Jon & cg are wolves (assuming Zell was telling the truth about who he checked).

I never checked anyone. The Edet can’t check AND kill, and my kill attempt on tubby was blocked night 2. Jon and CG was just reading the room

 

[Kat]

Maybe cold reads work for individuals, but the difficulty is getting the rest of the town to buy into those reads. People tend not to act in groups unless they have actionable info. We saw it the last game -- Tommy was a seer role, and people refused to act without him calling the shots.

That's why I wanted to run this game. I was hoping it'd encourage people to lean on reads more. That's also why there are so many killing roles, so people can act independently on reads even if they can't convince the group. It, uh, hasn't worked great for the town so far though.

Tubby is wolf #4 isn't he lmao.

Do you want an answer to this?

 

[Kat]

Welcome @Jawneh and @Dean

 

[Zell 17]

I subtly claimed it when I responded to you saying there wouldn't be a tough guy report after the first night.

The problem with subtle claims is if the guy holding the gun doesn’t get it

 

[A Maybe Baker]

The problem with subtle claims is if the guy holding the gun doesn’t get it

Right, because then the wolves would know they'd need to target me with the berserk and I'd find nothing out.

The issue isn't my lack of a direct claim. The issue was two people tried to kill me based off of literally nothing rather than waiting for anything at all to tell them.

 

[finlandguy]

I am a dead! Huzzah! Off to read... Or I would if it wasn't time to go to work. Bah.

Btw @Kat , you should probably confirm who Dean was for the wolves.

 

[finlandguy]

How was pointing out your role and facade randomly? And to be fair, it wasn't anything me or the wolves were considering. Just something I was toying with and stoking some fires.

 

[TD]

I never checked anyone. The Edet can’t check AND kill, and my kill attempt on tubby was blocked night 2. Jon and CG was just reading the room

Here's me yet again not fully understanding the Solo Killer roles because even after rereading the description I still don't get it.

"Cannot be killed by the wolves at night. At night, can compare two players. If they belong to the same team, the Evil Detective will be told that both players belong to the same team. If they belong to different teams, both players will be killed. The Evil Detective can compare players against themselves, which always guarantees that the other player will die."

To me, I'm reading this as you check two people each night and if they're on opposite teams they die. If they're the same team, you're told. You can guarantee one kill vs chancing two by choosing the same person.

What am I getting wrong here?

Do you want an answer to this?

...yes but no. I like surprises.

 

[Kat]

Here's me yet again not fully understanding the Solo Killer roles because even after rereading the description I still don't get it.

"Cannot be killed by the wolves at night. At night, can compare two players. If they belong to the same team, the Evil Detective will be told that both players belong to the same team. If they belong to different teams, both players will be killed. The Evil Detective can compare players against themselves, which always guarantees that the other player will die."

To me, I'm reading this as you check two people each night and if they're on opposite teams they die. If they're the same team, you're told. You can guarantee one kill vs chancing two by choosing the same person.

What am I getting wrong here?

Your understanding is the same as mine.

 

[TD]

Just caught up on the game thread - seems everyone is interpreting it like that too so now I'm extra curious what Zell means you can't check and kill the same night.

 

[finlandguy]

What am I getting wrong here?

I think he just worded it bad. I think he meant no guaranteed kill attempt and checking. Checking can end up being a double kill or info that two people are on the same team.

But like Kat already said, you understood it correctly.

 

[TD]

Ohhhhh that would make a lot of sense.

 

[TD]

Man - Evil Detective is a cool role. Heck, most of the solos are.

 

[Kat]

Man - Evil Detective is a cool role. Heck, most of the solos are.

I agree! I want to play a solo role so bad.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

I agree! I want to play a solo role so bad.

Solo Killer.

Solo Voter is less fun

 

[Kat]

Solo Killer.

Solo Voter is less fun

Also agreed, but I'd take either.

 

[TD]

Truth.

The game I had the most fun with was the game where I was the Illusionist - now affectionately known as the Lamb Chop 6 game.

 

[Zell 17]

Just caught up on the game thread - seems everyone is interpreting it like that too so now I'm extra curious what Zell means you can't check and kill the same night.

Yeah your understanding is right. You can check every night but killing someone requires an unequal check. So if I wanted to guarantee a kill of a villager, I would compare a villager against myself so as to not kill wolves.

 

[Raine]

Oh cool, there's a second Marksman!

And that second Marksman is someone I would've killed had the first shot succeeded? Fantastic! I have not bagged a solitary fucking wolf this entire game.

I'm super keen on spelling out my thought processes; it makes for a good chuckle in retrospect when they invariably go sideways.

Anyway off to prep for weekend misery, good luck town! Don't fuck up that second shot Uncle Derp.

 

[Kat]

And that second Marksman is someone I would've killed had the first shot succeeded? Fantastic! I have not bagged a solitary fucking wolf this entire game.

... Wait how do you know that? I'm very sure he hasn't hinted at all.

 

[Dean]

Man. I got double killed by my teammates who decided to take out a protector role that I hinted at having early in the game when I told Zell that the Tough Guy wasn't going to have any information.

GG team.

Raine did you already have the badge for shooting yourself in the face?

You're always a wolf though.

I dunno. One of your posts was really sus to me. Ah well.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

You're always a wolf though.

I dunno. One of your posts was really sus to me. Ah well.

Which one? I don't even think I had that many.

Also I haven't been evil in quite a few games lol.

 

[Zell 17]

Fool’s is gonna carry. What a world

 

[TD]

Holy shit you're right and I'm here for it.

Go Fool's!

 

[finlandguy]

Now that I think about it, maybe killing Dean wasn't the right move. Sure, the protection potion is off the board, but letting him live and confusing him more mightve been better for us than leaving jumpy alive as a more wildcard.

Also we did get a wolf trix in. Way less powerful as we don't seem to have any aura seers or anything. Plus it got completely wasted too as it was mine on Alu and we both died during confusion.

 

[Zell 17]

I would have definitely killed jumpman and probably used berserk if I had it. He’s a protector and he’s a proven villager. Gotta go.

 

[Zell 17]

If I had lived as evil detective though I was killing a wolf+villager

 

[Smacktard]

This is a side of FR I haven't seen, and I am HERE for it!

 

[Kat]

Is shortkut okay? "How do we know Local was a teacher?" "How many wolves are there?" "How do we know there's a second marksman?" It's not like him.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

Is shortkut okay? "How do we know Local was a teacher?" "How many wolves are there?" "How do we know there's a second marksman?" It's not like him.

He's upgraded from not reading the roles to not reading the posts.

 

[TD]

 

[TD]

One of the things I actually don't think I like is the "minimum votes to lynch" thing, I don't remember it being a thing in OG GW.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

One of the things I actually don't think I like is the "minimum votes to lynch" thing, I don't remember it being a thing in OG GW.

Nah it was just the person with the most votes I believe. Forced the hand to lynch every time.

 

[TD]

That's what I thought - I personally liked that it forced people into action or to make a choice.

 

[Zell 17]

Sometimes it’s in the villages best interest not to kill someone though. But you could force people to vote “No kill” I guess

 

[Kat]

Hmm, I'm definitely open to getting rid of the minimum in future games.

 

[TD]

Sure it is - but it's a double edged sword. The minimum vote thing I feel lowers activity and discussion. Votes are meaningless until the minimum is hit and when you need nearly 50% of all active players to agree on someone, the whole voting thing can become redundant.

I felt this a lot in the game where I called Local a wolf and we had like 6 votes which was a lot when you consider that was more than half the town.

I'll also say - those days where you got a legit two person race in votes can get exciting.

 

[Kat]

I feel like I should've at least set the minimum lower today. I didn't realize so many people were going to be inactive.

 

[TD]

It is a pretty quiet day phase but I also don't think that's on you.

Wolves could be strategically quiet and just leaving it to this obviously indecisive and passive town.

 

[finlandguy]

Did y'all figure out the other wolves yet? There's both easy and hard wolves to figure out just from what has been going on in the day thread.

 

[TD]

I do most my reads off behaviour and reading behaviour is challenging when it's this quiet.

I'm pretty confident Jon is a wolf.
If I had to guess the other two it'd be canadaguy and Tubby (lol just cause).

 

[finlandguy]

Poor Tubby is first pelted and then accused of being a wolf. This is the world we live in.

But there is between 1-3 correct wolf guesses in there.