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Movies Fantastic Four: First Steps

Jon

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This looks really interesting to me. I love Pedro Pascal anyway, but the more comic accurate depiction has me excited. Thing looks cooler here. More human like than a stone version of Hulk. Likely taking place in a different Universe if I were to guess than the sacred timeline, but it has me excited.

I wonder if Galactus was always a part of this movie, or if this was the big bad pivot from Kang after the stuff with Jonathan Majors?
 

Ben

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Likely taking place in a different Universe if I were to guess than the sacred timeline, but it has me excited.
I'd think this is likely, given that they're apparently bringing RDJ back as Dr. Doom. Can't really do that if they're in the same universe as Stark (was).

I dig the retro aesthetic and totally agree that Pedro Pascal rarely misses. That's a near comic-book accurate Thing, too. Definitely cool to see.
 
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I'd think this is likely, given that they're apparently bringing RDJ back as Dr. Doom. Can't really do that if they're in the same universe as Stark (was).
Dr. Doom wears a mask though so I'm sure they could do it. like yeah we know who it is behind the mask the in universe they don't so I don't think they'd take the mask off and be like "hey you look like Tony Stark" or maybe they would? who knows
 

Jon

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Dr. Doom wears a mask though so I'm sure they could do it. like yeah we know who it is behind the mask the in universe they don't so I don't think they'd take the mask off and be like "hey you look like Tony Stark" or maybe they would? who knows
This is the concept I can't wait for them to answer. I mean it's almost CERTAINLY a different universe... but is it an alternate Stark? Or a new Von Doom?

I am willing to bet there is a post credit scene introducing him but answering nothing.
 

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Dr. Doom wears a mask though so I'm sure they could do it. like yeah we know who it is behind the mask the in universe they don't so I don't think they'd take the mask off and be like "hey you look like Tony Stark" or maybe they would? who knows
Well logically you'd think that.

But meta to the plot, I don't think there's any way Robert Downey Jr. would do a huge high-budget Marvel movie and not have his face shown throughout. As an actor, he's going to demand that he get screentime. Even when he was "in the Iron Man suit" we'd still get close up shots of his face inside the helmet. That same thing won't work with Dr. Doom.

In the comics, though, Von Doom worked with Reed, did he not? Is there a universe they didn't? Someone like @VashTheStampede may be able to answer. I don't know much about the comics universes sadly.
I believe the primary storyline is that they were all out in Space doing science together and Dr. Doom got his powers from the same cosmic accident that made the other Four so Fantastic. I don't know about any other timelines though and whether that's different, so still a question for our more Nerdly folks.
 
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VashTheStampede

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In the comics, though, Von Doom worked with Reed, did he not? Is there a universe they didn't? Someone like @VashTheStampede may be able to answer. I don't know much about the comics universes sadly.
They were rivals in college. Both incredibly brilliant minds. Doom was interested in the supernatural, Reed thought that was hogwash.

Reed interrupted Doom's experiment wherein Doom was trying to travel to another dimension. Doom was trying to travel to Hell to battle the Devil for the soul of his mother. Reed's like "whatever bro, I'm an atheist, I'm just saying your machine is fucked". Doom is all "bullshit dude, you just don't understand MAGIC".

Problem is that Reed was right, Doom's machine was whack and literally blew up in his face. Doom makes Reed a scapegoat for his failure and becomes obsessed with proving himself superior. Which, fair, Reed's a bit of an egotistical prick himself and needs to be brought down a peg.

But that's just Earth-616.

The idea of Reed/Doom not being a thing in the MCU is the one thing that gives me MAJOR trepidation, but that didn't stop me from getting SUPER EXCITED after seeing this trailer.
 
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Jon

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They were rivals in college. Both incredibly brilliant minds. Doom was interested in the supernatural, Reed thought that was hogwash.

Reed interrupted Doom's experiment wherein Doom was trying to travel to another dimension. Doom was trying to travel to Hell to battle the Devil for the soul of his mother. Reed's like "whatever bro, I'm an atheist, I'm just saying your machine is fucked". Doom is all "bullshit dude, you just don't understand MAGIC".

Problem is that Reed was right, Doom's machine was whack and literally blew up in his face. Doom makes Reed a scapegoat for his failure and becomes obsessed with proving himself superior. Which, fair, Reed's a bit of an egotistical prick himself and needs to be brought down a peg.

But that's just Earth-616.

The idea of Reed/Doom not being a thing in the MCU is the one thing that gives me MAJOR trepidation, but that didn't stop me from getting SUPER EXCITED after seeing this trailer.
This is what I thought. It's possible they are purposely hiding Downey in the trailers, but it also feels like this isn't an origin story and they may already have their powers similar to that of Holland's Spiderman. Which could explain Downey/Von Doom's absence for now.
 

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This is what I thought. It's possible they are purposely hiding Downey in the trailers, but it also feels like this isn't an origin story and they may already have their powers similar to that of Holland's Spiderman. Which could explain Downey/Von Doom's absence for now.
I also got the impression it wasn’t an origin story, maybe some flashbacks, but like they are already empowered
 

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I know nothing about the comics and Fantastic 4, but is the series very popular in comic book world? It may just be the adaptations have been crap, but F4 just seem so boring and generic. Perhaps that is because it has inspired so many things? What I know about comic books is TV and movies. So I grew up with Animated series of Batman, Spiderman and Xmen in the 90s and that kind of set my view of what the popular comics were
 

VashTheStampede

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I know nothing about the comics and Fantastic 4, but is the series very popular in comic book world? It may just be the adaptations have been crap, but F4 just seem so boring and generic. Perhaps that is because it has inspired so many things? What I know about comic books is TV and movies. So I grew up with Animated series of Batman, Spiderman and Xmen in the 90s and that kind of set my view of what the popular comics were
It hasn't been the biggest seller since the 60s-70s and honestly, for the most part of their history, to me it's pretty boring, but it remains popular enough to almost always have an ongoing comic. These days that means a lot.

But there's been a few runs in more recent years where it has been one of the best comics going. I just read Mark Waid's run last year and it was  fantastic really good. And Jonathan Hickman's run was incredible, part of his magnum opus that continues in Avengers and culminates in the Secret Wars event.
 
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Like Vash, I've read some Fantastic Four recently (including Waid's run) and I really enjoyed it. A lot of Marvel's main storylines really just read like movies, with a big fight scene at the end. And I enjoy those. But FF offers different storylines, and I was surprised at how compelling some of those stories were in terms of both the character development and interactions between the main family, as well as the way that conflicts between the FF and Doom play out. I haven't read Hickman's run (it's on my shelf), but there's a lot of really good material to draw from for the MCU.

In terms of origin, the MCU obviously doesn't need to stick to the canon origin in the 616 timeline (which is the main Marvel timeline). The strict origins of a lot of these characters are very old now, and there's plenty of room for creative licence. In alternative timelines in the comics, Tony Stark did become versions of Iron Man that were basically Doctor Doom in all but name. It remains to be seen whether he is going to be an alternative timeline Tony Stark or Victor Von Doom. I'd be happy with either, but whichever one they choose, I'm pretty optimistic about this. Whilst I've enjoyed the MCU throughout, it has felt more stagnant recently, partly because it's fundamentally the same stories being recycled. The Marvels was a good, enjoyable movie, for example, but it's just superheroes stopping a big bad with the usual mix of action sequences and humour. And we've seen that a lot in the past 15 years. The relationship between the FF and Doctor Doom is really very different. There's good potential there to really refresh the MCU as a whole, especially since Brave New World and Thunderbolts, as much as I will no doubt watch and enjoy them, don't look to be breaking the mould at all.
 
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This looks really interesting to me. I love Pedro Pascal anyway, but the more comic accurate depiction has me excited. Thing looks cooler here. More human like than a stone version of Hulk. Likely taking place in a different Universe if I were to guess than the sacred timeline, but it has me excited.

I wonder if Galactus was always a part of this movie, or if this was the big bad pivot from Kang after the stuff with Jonathan Majors?

I cannot WAIT for this one! It's got me excited TOO, sir! The movie is entitled: The First Steps. I'm glad Hollywood got their heads outta their asses and actually -, no FINALLY took The First Steps to making a MARVEL movie more accurate to the comic lore
 
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Saw this yesterday and it was better than I expected. Thought I was going into a 7, maybe an 8. But walking out it felt more like a 9/10.

I used to think the Fantastic Four were kind of lame until Marvel Rivals happened, and then I started reading a bit of the old comics. My newfound appreciation for them may have made me like the movie more than I otherwise would've, but I think they did a pretty good job to where even the average person would be able to really enjoy it. Saw it with my dad, who said he's only really watched the old cartoon, and he was a big fan of the movie as well.
Happy Fantastic Four GIF by Marvel Studios
 

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Finally saw it.

That was definitely a better take on what was already the best Fantastic Four movie (Rise of the Silver Surfer). Galactus' existence is much more believable.

The Jetsons inspired version of earth is unique, but doesn't really do anything for the movie other than provide a stark contrast to what we're going to see in Doomsday. I will say that this is probably the closest we get to a live action Jetsons film.

Some of the CG is wonky. There's a scene where Grimm picks up a car and pretends to toss it, then a lady comes out to flirt with him. When they're having the conversation, it looks super obvious that Grimm is standing in front of a green screen (of sorts) or that his design just doesn't work for the effects. I will say, him wearing a beard is a better look.

I'm a little mixed in Johnny. I like that he has passion for space and not just girls, but there's a lack of cockiness that I'm used to seeing from Johnny Storm. Did they change him because there's already too many unserious jokesters in the MCU? Chris Evans felt more believable as Johnny. His relationship with Ben doesn't seem as goofy either. There's definitely some joking with each other present in the movie, but Ben and Johnny fucking with each other was like the best part of the Tim Story movies, it felt real. Their relationship here feels weak, and it's not like there weren't plenty of times. Johnny's relationship with Sue is much better, though. She knows when he has something important to say that Reed doesn't seem to have the awareness to notice. In the Tim Story movies, if they didn't tell you they were siblings, you wouldn't have ever known, because there was no true chemistry between tbe two.
I like that Johnny is smart enough to decipher a language on his own. Tim Story's Johnny was a fucking moron.

The Silver Surfer was almost copy pasted from the 2007 movie outside of the fact that we got soem backstory and that the Surfer is a female this time. She inexpicably disappears from the climax only to play the part of the Deus Ex Machina just like in the 2007 movie.

The child angle should be interesting, but I worry about the teenage years... I fucking hate angsty teenager storylines and that kid's unknown powers has "we're going to make this kid a conflict point as a teenager" storyline written all over it. Would prefer a Jack Jack type situation, but even in the Incredibles we still don't know how he adjusts to being a teenager.
 
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Forgot to post in this thread, but I saw it last week. For context, I will say that I have recently read Hickman's run on Fantastic Four. I haven't read Kirby's run, which apparently this is quite faithful to. But Hickman's run leads directly into Secret Wars in the comics, and this is where this film is going, so it's probably relevant that I just read the comic arc that is going to be close to the film.

Anyway, I loved it. I thought the setting was spot on, and the setting combined with the early family interactions gave us a really efficient origin story that worked. There are two things in particular about this that I really liked.

The first is how Galactus was portrayed. I think for those who haven't read Galactus stories, he's just seen as a massive, all powerful being that eats planets. He is very powerful, but in reality the character is much more nuanced than that. The portrayal here both of that power visually but also of a being that is actually suffering because of the hunger that he endures was pretty much spot on in my view.

The second is some of the nuances to Pedro Pascal's Mr Fantastic. Again, something that those who haven't read the comics won't realise is that Mr Fantastic is a very complex character morally. He is exceptionally intelligent, but genuinely grapples with the morality of a lot of the things that he can do, but may choose not to. That happens in Waid's run with the way he deals with Doom and Latveria (directly before Hickman's), and in Hickman's run it's demonstrated by an exceptional story called the Council of Reeds (which involves the Bridge, which was in the film, but in a very different way). That is a story I don't want to spoil for those who haven't read it, but suffice to say that it shows us just how close Reed Richards is to actually being evil. In the Ultimate Marvel universe from the early 2000s, he actually does turn evil and becomes a supervillain that pops up at various other points in comics from that point. So Reed Richards' morality, and how close he is to not being a superhero at all, is a consistent theme of that character in the comics. What I really liked here is how that was portrayed, with Sue not only checking his tendency to prefer logic over morality, but actively calling him out on it. The acting performances there were perfect with those interactions, I think it was pretty skilfully woven into the film.

As for the other portrayals, we didn't see a lot of the Thing, but the fact that others see him as physically strong whilst he is a much more sensitive personality (again, a running theme in the comics) comes through, and I really do like how they dealt with Johnny. In the comics he does move between idiot/jock and someone who has a bit more to give, but in the context of this film he had to be more than that because he had to be one of the best people to be on the original trip. Again, I think they dealt with that well and the fact of him cracking the Surfer's language really worked from that perspective.

The only thing I didn't like was Sue having the ability to push Galactus into the portal herself, which I don't think works either from the perspective of the comics or the film. But I understand why it was needed, and it didn't spoil the film for me in any way. I genuinely thought this was top tier MCU, and we've waited a long time for one of those.

On the Franklin thing, like Vash I'm sad they cut Val out, but again, I can see how they didn't have time to incorporate her. I don't think an angsty teen story is coming either. Franklin has a specific relevance to the Secret Wars storyline, and I expect that relevance will be used in some way in the MCU. But there's no need to turn him into an angsty teen for that (the comics actually alternative between him as a primary schooler and him meeting his grown up future self), and I don't think that'll happen.
 

VashTheStampede

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I genuinely thought this was top tier MCU, and we've waited a long time for one of those.
I enjoyed the movie but I think it falls just short of top tier MCU for me.

I thought that Thunderbolts* was top tier, personally. So hopefully between the two movies, everyone has one that they feels breaks the streak of mediocrity
 
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I enjoyed the movie but I think it falls just short of top tier MCU for me.

I thought that Thunderbolts* was top tier, personally. So hopefully between the two movies, everyone has one that they feels breaks the streak of mediocrity
Yeah, other way round for me. Thunderbolts just short of top tier in my view. But as you say, both clearly better than Brave New World, and most of the films in recent years that came before that. Does feel like the MCU is back on track.
 
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