Zell Wolf GWF Zell Wolf Version VII-2: REBIRTH Night 2 / Day 2

[A Maybe Baker]

Also, to be clear as to why it literally does not matter about what TD's actual role is (the main thing being used to say Tommy is the sorcerer who communicated it to the rest of the wolf team):

GWF Zell Wolf Version VII-2: REBIRTH Night 1 / Day 1

I don't think the town understands how the numbers work if we don't get a lynch today. We're counting on our killing roles to pick up all of our slack if we don't make a well-placed lynch -- hell, any lynch to force the guardian wolf to use their power Well now you get what I was trying to do...

gwforums.com

He literally said "if the warden locks me up I'll do it myself" as his last post of the thread yesterday. He was asking to be locked up, and then he was and oh man the berserker comes out of no where and kills two people? What a shock!

 

[Jon]

Just to be clear, it's not so much a schtick as it is "it's only 7-6 town to wolves right now so unless we outvote them there's 0% of a wolf being lynched"

Granted, with a guardian in place there's still a 0% chance, but at least that would use up that power rather than keeping it for another day.

That's fair enough... I just feel there is a ton of lobbying without proof, a lot of bandwagoning, and a lot of blind faith... which feels... wrong.

JUST AN EXAMPLE - Kelly says he's innocent and to vote X or you're a wolf. Everyone does it. Alu says he's innocent and no one believes him.

Again, an example... change the names however you want. The "because I said so thing" makes me feel like it will be this towns undoing. We have enough powers to change the tide here but if we're not 100% coordinated on those, sapping out the guardian wolf power is going to be meaningless. Have we put any consideration into THAT at all with a little more than an hour in the day?

 

[Jon]

I don't think I've ever even said the word unity. Don't make me give you the lazy eye Jon.

You weren't the one that said it.

 

[Smacktard]

He literally said "if the warden locks me up I'll do it myself" as his last post of the thread yesterday.

THANK YOU. I pointed this out yesterday when I did my "last post" gambit and the wolfy ones chose to intentionally ignore this post and instead homed in on a post that talked about weapons instead. I'm remembering Kat specifically, but there was another as well.

 

[Smacktard]

Kelly says he's innocent and to vote X or you're a wolf. Everyone does it. Alu says he's innocent and no one believes him.

I have explained multiple times why I'm innocent. If you choose to wilfully ignore it or misinterpret it, that's on you.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

That's fair enough... I just feel there is a ton of lobbying without proof, a lot of bandwagoning, and a lot of blind faith... which feels... wrong.

JUST AN EXAMPLE - Kelly says he's innocent and to vote X or you're a wolf. Everyone does it. Alu says he's innocent and no one believes him.

Again, an example... change the names however you want. The "because I said so thing" makes me feel like it will be this towns undoing. We have enough powers to change the tide here but if we're not 100% coordinated on those, sapping out the guardian wolf power is going to be meaningless. Have we put any consideration into THAT at all with a little more than an hour in the day?

Sure, look at my last post. Cole was arguing that the most likely scenario for how TD was killed off with berserk was because Tommy IDd him as Tough Guy and it would be the best way to get rid of him without letting him get info.

However, TD literally asked to be locked up by the warden, publicly. This was completely ignored in order to make the case against Tommy.


The most likely scenario (for me, being the only person who knew exactly my role before...) is that Raposa saw a chance with a person who had 0 way of actually proving his role because he has no actions (yet). Took it, because if people bit then it would be GG wolves.

 

[Jon]

I have explained multiple times why I'm innocent. If you choose to wilfully ignore it or misinterpret it, that's on you.

If you choose to willfully ignore that I said it was a complete example and you can change the names however you want, that's on you.

 

[Smacktard]

However, TD literally asked to be locked up by the warden, publicly. This was completely ignored in order to make the case against Tommy.

AND the case against me, FWIW.

 

[Jon]

Sure, look at my last post. Cole was arguing that the most likely scenario for how TD was killed off with berserk was because Tommy IDd him as Tough Guy and it would be the best way to get rid of him without letting him get info.

However, TD literally asked to be locked up by the warden, publicly. This was completely ignored in order to make the case against Tommy.


The most likely scenario (for me, being the only person who knew exactly my role before...) is that Raposa saw a chance with a person who had 0 way of actually proving his role because he has no actions (yet). Took it, because if people bit then it would be GG wolves.

Sure, and how did convincing the rest of the town go?

This is my point. So I thank you for an applicable example.

 

[Smacktard]

If you choose to willfully ignore that I said it was a complete example and you can change the names however you want, that's on you.

It's an example. You meant to say it was a hypothetical, or what? Why use a hypothetical when you can use, you know, an actual example.

 

[Jawneh]

Wow, I made it. And im tired as fuck. Got maybe 4 hours of sleep baby.

I'm going to err on both Tommy and Raposa as if the town burns down thanks to this, I want to keep my conscience clean. Until we get some better ideas, seer info, or the body of it, I'm sticking to my guns thinking Kelly can be the fan and if so has probably single handedly won the game.

Some reasons why.

The fan should be out in the open day 1 causing a scene or trying to run the town as they are completely free of every check since we don't look to have a detective. Kelly has been there. The idea for everyone to claim guaranteed or random is perfectly fine as there's credibility grown there plus gets info for the wolves too. It was day 1 so odds are there was no master plan for the wolves considering there was no kill night 1. Why not play with what Kelly is spouting? If he's checked, he is good! If he's jailed, he lives!

Unlikely Cole would say, Kelly did indirectly lead to the deaths of TD and Raine. Without the push for revealing at least your role distribution, TD wouldn't have needed to hint at being willing to get jailed to save his bacon and would later easily used his power if he got hit protecting anyone. Could Kelly have known about a zerker? Obviously not, but that's also what the wolves were eager to slap an easy double kill on as it landed in their lap.

Probably lastly (as I'm kind of vomiting my thoughts out) Kelly's voting has been here and there as well. Well, beyond going for Local I should say. There were attacks on kut, heavy accusations if lying for Tommy, and the second Raposa comes along to point a finger at Alu everything fell into place, Tommy is exonerated, Raposa is guilty, and Local is still a wolf. Yes, I did ask Kelly about Tommy and Raposa and he did say he's not 100% convinced either.

Lastly lastly I think, about Tommy, even if we can all agree that he a horrible liar, if he's the sorcerer he should be perfectly fine just playing an aura seer. There's no lying or deceit. It says he's one in the job description. It'd be an awful stretch at this point to say he's even unable to do that. A no bro I ain't lying defense isn't much for me no matter what the person's traits are.

So I'm voting Kelly. We're well past the dangerous 7. I doubt this swings anything, but it sounds better to me than throw a 50/50 between a seer and a sorcerer.

 

[Jon]

It's an example. You meant to say it was a hypothetical, or what? Why use a hypothetical when you can use, you know, an actual example.

If you want to mince semantics, then sure, I meant hypothetical example.

In my defense, I had a rough night where I almost needed to go to the ER, so I am insanely exhausted. I'm sorry my word choice was incorrect.

 

[Smacktard]

Proud of the town showing more unity than the wolves right now

 

[Smacktard]

If you want to mince semantics, then sure, I meant hypothetical example

It's not mincing semantics. You misspoke, I misinterpreted, then you blamed me for not understanding what you were trying to say.

 

[Smacktard]

Lmao look at all these wolves pushing the narrative that I'm the fan. It's the only way they can accuse me AND protect Raposa at the same time.

 

[Jon]

It's not mincing semantics. You misspoke, I misinterpreted, then you blamed me for not understanding what you were trying to say.

What are you talking about? I literally used your exact words you did... I didn't blame you of anything. Misspoke, misunderstood... sure... but Blame? I didn't do anything of the sort.

 

[Jawneh]

Now, when the inevitable guardian comes tonight, are we still going to be confident about witching the same person as well? If the fan is converted, we'd just lose on a townie lynch. If the fan isnt converted, we'd lose if we lynch a townie now and the wolves convert tonight. 8-5 to 7-5 and then 6-6.

 

[Cole]

Proud of the town showing more unity than the wolves right now

the wolves are showing unity. you're leading them to it. you have been since your first post of the game.

 

[Smacktard]

the wolves are showing unity. you're leading them to it. you have been since your first post of the game.

Yeah, unity in accusing me and claiming I'm the wolf fan

 

[Jon]

Lmao look at all these wolves pushing the narrative that I'm the fan. It's the only way they can accuse me AND protect Raposa at the same time.

What wolves? Even if you suspect Jawneh, he made a clear, coherent post with observable facts mixed with his own opinion and supposition. (EDIT: And he's the only one saying anything about you right now; everyone else is on Raposuh.)

I would argue he's the ONLY one to have done that at all, and makes a more compelling argument than anyone else's I've seen thus far... outside maybe Tommy and Alu...

 

[Zell 17]

Votes to lynch (6 required):

Raposuh - 9 (Alu, Smacktard, Benzine, Dean, Tubby23, Local Hero, Tommy Boy, shortkut, Jon)
Tommy Boy - 3 (Cole, Kat, Raposuh)
Smacktard - 1 (Jawneh)

Votes to skip (12 required):
No vote - 13 (Alu, Benzine, Cole, Dean, Jawneh, Jon, Kat, Local Hero, Raposuh, shortkut, Smacktard, Tommy Boy, Tubby23)

 

[A Maybe Baker]

Sure, and how did convincing the rest of the town go?

This is my point. So I thank you for an applicable example.

For a long while today, people were voting Tommy. Then people switched to Raposa.

So people were convinced by the narrative of Tommy needing to be the one who got TD berserked, and then the no longer were convinced of that. I've been on Raposa all day because I know what role I actually have, and it does not have an evil aura.

 

[Smacktard]

Without the push for revealing at least your role distribution, TD wouldn't have needed to hint at being willing to get jailed to save his bacon

If TD didn't have his aura revealed -- AFTER I pushed the role claim idea -- this, as a plan, never would've worked.

Plus, TD never said if he was guaranteed/random. The town reached that conclusion without help from my plan.

I'm also against the idea of a protecting role that kills night powers protecting another protecting role: you remove a protecting role from the night. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Jawneh]

Lmao look at all these wolves pushing the narrative that I'm the fan. It's the only way they can accuse me AND protect Raposa at the same time.

Once we know more I'll gladly say I was wrong. We'd still be in the game. Right now there's more reason to believe you're the fan than one of Tommy or Raposa being the sorcerer. We don't even have all our roles figured out.

 

[Smacktard]

Jawneh, he made a clear, coherent post with observable facts mixed with his own opinion and supposition

There is nothing coherent about voting against the town at a critical time when unity is our only chance of winning. It's clear an coherent only from a wolf's perspective trying to sow chaos and discord at the last moment when it would be impossible for all town members to switch over at the last moment and have a successful lynch.

Once we know more I'll gladly say I was wrong. We'd still be in the game. Right now there's more reason to believe you're the fan than one of Tommy or Raposa being the sorcerer. We don't even have all our roles figured out.

Regardless of whether or not you think this, if you're a townie, you don't vote against many other townies unless you're trying to save your bacon. Your WOLF bacon, that is.

 

[Smacktard]

I have an announcement to make:
This is my last post today.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

Once we know more I'll gladly say I was wrong. We'd still be in the game. Right now there's more reason to believe you're the fan than one of Tommy or Raposa being the sorcerer. We don't even have all our roles figured out.

I hope you mean you believe there's a stronger case that Kelly is the fan than knowing which of Tommy or Raposa is the sorcerer. One of the two of them is almost certainly the sorcerer.

You can talk about what you think on Kelly's play style though, but the sorcerer plays as an aura seer, and we only have two people who have claimed that role.

 

[Cole]

There is nothing coherent about voting against the town at a critical time when unity is our only chance of winning. It's clear an coherent only from a wolf's perspective trying to sow chaos and discord at the last moment when it would be impossible for all town members to switch over at the last moment and have a successful lynch.

you mean literally whatr you've done? Having your wolves all switch to Raposa at the last second?

 

[Jon]

There is nothing coherent about voting against the town at a critical time when unity is our only chance of winning. It's clear an coherent only from a wolf's perspective trying to sow chaos and discord at the last moment when it would be impossible for all town members to switch over at the last moment and have a successful lynch.

I didn't say he was right. I said it was clear, coherent and concise. It was.

I have an announcement to make:
This is my last post today.

You tried this yesterday too... I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

 

[Smacktard]

You tried this yesterday too... I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

No really I promise it's my last post.

 

[Jawneh]

If TD didn't have his aura revealed -- AFTER I pushed the role claim idea -- this, as a plan, never would've worked.

Plus, TD never said if he was guaranteed/random. The town reached that conclusion without help from my plan.

I'm also against the idea of a protecting role that kills night powers protecting another protecting role: you remove a protecting role from the night. It doesn't make sense.

You wouldn't know anything about it working or not. You don't know who or what the wolves are.

And the town wouldn't have been able to do that if enough people decided not to claim one way or the other. Like I said, you didn't do it. You were just trying to make things better for the wolves as well so that they can choose target better before sorcerer info is relevant.

And jailing TD, other than going by whether TD claimed, didn't claim, or merely said he wasn't doing it now (sorry, I forget how the both of you worded that all) but I don't think we were convinced him being the tough guy. At least I wasn't. I thought he was full of it and at best lying about being one.

 

[Local Hero]

Listen, I don't have an info role. I can't know anything. . Tommy might be a wolf, Raposa might be a wolf, maybe neither? I honestly can't think through the implications of each scenario.

But I do know Kelly has been playing to the detriment of the town this whole game. He pushed for powerful roles to reveal themselves. He's been accusing townies strongly with no evidence. He's been so sus trying to lead the narrative. And also to the town's destruction. We all know Kelly is a very smart player, but this ain't it. 4 townies dead one night. One more townie lynched and it's game over.

I honestly think he got lucky getting arrested with TD, probably wasn't his plan, but if he's the Fan, he's safe and now has an alibi. He's playing sus so he can get turned. This makes the most sense to me.

I'm in a meeting so I'm sorry if I missed anything. Love and peace.

@Zell 17, I vote @Smacktard

 

[Jawneh]

I hope you mean you believe there's a stronger case that Kelly is the fan than knowing which of Tommy or Raposa is the sorcerer. One of the two of them is almost certainly the sorcerer.

You can talk about what you think on Kelly's play style though, but the sorcerer plays as an aura seer, and we only have two people who have claimed that role.

I would say it's better. Granted going down my reasoning would put you on the chopping block afterwards too so i get how that sounds telling it to you. It's not as solid as Local being a wolf, but we also can't get rid of him yet.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

And jailing TD, other than going by whether TD claimed, didn't claim, or merely said he wasn't doing it now (sorry, I forget how the both of you worded that all) but I don't think we were convinced him being the tough guy. At least I wasn't. I thought he was full of it and at best lying about being one.

The town didn't need to be. The wolves knew who all the townies were and could have process of eliminationed it down to that.

But again: it doesn't matter what role TD had. The wolves knew he was town, and the wolves knew he asked to be jailed by the warden. That's the perfect opportunity to kill two players with the berserk.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

I would say it's better. Granted going down my reasoning would put you on the chopping block afterwards too so i get how that sounds telling it to you. It's not as solid as Local being a wolf, but we also can't get rid of him yet.

My meaning: who else do you think could possibly be the sorcerer? It's got to be either Tommy or Raposa, and regardless of which you believe it is, 100% chance of one of the two of them is larger than whatever chance (even 90%) you give Kelly to being the fan.

 

[A Maybe Baker]

you mean literally whatr you've done? Having your wolves all switch to Raposa at the last second?

Note that after this post we had someone switch to a 3rd party candidate who has 0 shot of being lynched in the last 35 minutes of the day phase.

 

[Tubby23]

Listen, I don't have an info role. I can't know anything. . Tommy might be a wolf, Raposa might be a wolf, maybe neither? I honestly can't think through the implications of each scenario.

But I do know Kelly has been playing to the detriment of the town this whole game. He pushed for powerful roles to reveal themselves. He's been accusing townies strongly with no evidence. He's been so sus trying to lead the narrative. And also to the town's destruction. We all know Kelly is a very smart player, but this ain't it. 4 townies dead one night. One more townie lynched and it's game over.

I honestly think he got lucky getting arrested with TD, probably wasn't his plan, but if he's the Fan, he's safe and now has an alibi. He's playing sus so he can get turned. This makes the most sense to me.

I'm in a meeting so I'm sorry if I missed anything. Love and peace.

@Zell 17, I vote @Smacktard

This fuckery is noted.

 

[Cole]

Note that after this post we had someone switch to a 3rd party candidate who has 0 shot of being lynched in the last 35 minutes of the day phase.

I'm not sure what weight you think that holds. but people had seemed to settle on Tommy until Kelly comes out of no where to continue to control the narrative, and a whole bunch of people fell in line behind him.

 

[Local Hero]

This fuckery is noted.

I don't like 50 50 to win or lose.

 

[Jawneh]

The town didn't need to be. The wolves knew who all the townies were and could have process of eliminationed it down to that.

But again: it doesn't matter what role TD had. The wolves knew he was town, and the wolves knew he asked to be jailed by the warden. That's the perfect opportunity to kill two players with the berserk.

Yeah. TDs role didn't matter. The only thing that mattered was that at the end of the day he felt he needed to hint about getting jailed to save himself and hopefully also kill a wolf. None other than the wolves knew about the zerker. It was the best thing to happen to them beyond the warden outright saying he's getting jailed. All that didn't need to happen.

My meaning: who else do you think could possibly be the sorcerer? It's got to be either Tommy or Raposa, and regardless of which you believe it is, 100% chance of one of the two of them is larger than whatever chance (even 90%) you give Kelly to being the fan.

It's probably 100% that the sorcerer is between the two. Unless there's still room for another random. It's just that picking the right one is a 50/50 without any other facts that we can't get today. I'm more confident about Kelly than a coin flip.

 

[Tubby23]

I don't like 50 50 to win or lose.

So you'd prefer to just passively sit here and be killed by wolves? That's a rhetorical question. Of course you would because then your team wins

 

[Smacktard]

I don't like 50 50 to win or lose.

Yes, as a wolf, it really does seem that you prefer to 100% lose.

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

Last post though, right?

 

[Tubby23]

Take a shot every time Kelly says last post

 

[Jon]

Can I just remind everyone that with 30 minutes to go, we STILL have no idea what the other random wolf role is and could be walking into a major trap going after Raposuh?

 

[Jon]

Take a shot every time Kelly says last post

Already drunk if I did that.

 

[Local Hero]

Take a shot every time Kelly says last post

 

[Zell 17]

Votes to lynch (6 required):

Raposuh - 8 (Alu, Smacktard, Benzine, Dean, Tubby23, Tommy Boy, shortkut, Jon)
Tommy Boy - 3 (Cole, Kat, Raposuh)
Smacktard - 2 (Jawneh, Local Hero)

Votes to skip (12 required):
No vote - 13 (Alu, Benzine, Cole, Dean, Jawneh, Jon, Kat, Local Hero, Raposuh, shortkut, Smacktard, Tommy Boy, Tubby23)

 

[Jawneh]

Oh, there's the fact the fact that Raposa checked Kelly night 1. We took that for granted. Today we aren't and are lynching him. I completely forgot about that.

 

[Local Hero]

Oh, there's the fact the fact that Raposa checked Kelly night 1. We took that for granted. Today we aren't and are lynching him. I completely forgot about that.

I don't remember this, what was the result of his check?

 

[Smacktard]

Take a shot every time Kelly says last post

((((((