TGVGD The Great Video Game Draft (n64 Draft)

[VashTheStampede]

Hello everyone and welcome back for stage 5 of the Great Video Game Draft!

This round we will be curating lists from the Nintendo 64!
I believe this is our biggest roster of players yet. I have entered all of your names into a random number generator a random number of times to determine the draft order. This will be a "snake" draft, so the person who chooses last in Round 1 will choose first in Round 2 as we go in reverse draft order. Then in Round 3, we reverse it back to the original order, and so on, until we have completed 7 rounds. Partly because there's so damn many of you, and partly because I don't think there's that many good n64 games.

There are a few different strategies you can use. You could try to just pick the very best game available to you at your turn in the draft. But remember, people will be voting to choose which roster they'd rather play, so maybe it would behoove you to pick a good VARIETY of games? Or you could just do what I would do and pick your personal favorites and let fate decide. This did not work well for me because there's no accounting for the tastes of the unwashed masses.

Once it is your turn in the draft order, feel free to make your selection. You will have 24 hours to make your selection. If you miss your allotted time, just jump in with any number of picks you missed whenever you can...but obviously the game(s) you wanted for your spot(s) might be gone. If you wish, you could try to make an argument/explanation as to why you picked the game you did. I might pop in and provide video clips or additional information as my time allows.

For those of you reading this who aren't playing, feel free to hop in and discuss how it's going/who you're rooting for/shitpost...I just ask that you don't name any games that haven't already been picked.

Draft Order

1. @Jawneh
2. @BigDaddy
3. @Jon
4. @Smacktard
5. @Bandicoot
6. @Tommy Boy
7. @Cole
8. @Banana
9. @Fool's Requiem
10. @Fire Queen
11. @Rick52
12. @The Flame
13. @Ants!

Round 1

User	Game
Jawneh	The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
BigDaddy	The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Jon	GoldenEye 007
Smacktard	Super Mario 64
Bandicoot	Banjo-Kazooie
Tommy Boy	Super Smash Bros.
Cole	Star Fox 64
Banana	Paper Mario
Fool's Requiem	Mario Kart 64
Fire Queen	Mischief Makers
Rick52	Perfect Dark
The Flame	Mario Party 2
Ants!	Castlevania 64

Round 2

User	Game
Ants!	Conker's Bad Fur Day
The Flame	Pokémon Snap
Rick52	Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards
Fire Queen	Donkey Kong 64
Fool's Requiem	Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
Banana	Diddy Kong Racing
Cole	WWF No Mercy
Tommy Boy	Banjo-Tooie
Bandicoot	Pilotwings 64
Smacktard	Bomberman 64
Jon	Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
BigDaddy	WCW/nWo Revenge
Jawneh	F-Zero X

Round 3

User	Game
Jawneh	Yoshi's Story
BigDaddy	Wave Race 64
Jon	Mario Party 3
Smacktard	Harvest Moon 64
Bandicoot	Blast Corps
Tommy Boy	Pokémon Stadium 2
Cole	WWF Wrestlemania 2000
Banana	Rayman 2: The Great Escape
Fool's Requiem	Beetle Adventure Racing
Fire Queen	Mario Tennis
Rick52	Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber
The Flame	Mario Golf
Ants!	Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness

Round 4

User	Game
Ants!	BattleTanx
The Flame	Cruis'n World
Rick52	Mario Party
Fire Queen	Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
Fool's Requiem	San Francisco Rush 2049
Banana	Excitebike 64
Cole	Turok: Dinosaur Hunter
Tommy Boy	Resident Evil 2
Bandicoot	Worms Armageddon
Smacktard	Pokemon Stadium
Jon	1080° Snowboarding
BigDaddy	Sin and Punishment
Jawneh	Space Station Silicon Valley

Round 5

User	Game
Jawneh	Turok 2: Seeds of Evil
BigDaddy	Gauntlet Legends
Jon	Doom 64
Smacktard	Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine
Bandicoot	Shadow Man
Tommy Boy	Hey You, Pikachu!
Cole	NFL Blitz
Banana	Gex: Enter the Gecko
Fool's Requiem	Quake II
Fire Queen	Mega Man 64
Rick52	Pokémon Puzzle League
The Flame PICK #64	Namco Museum 64
Ants!	BattleTanx: Global Assault

Round 64

User	Game
Ants!	Quest 64
The Flame	Glover
Rick52	Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Fire Queen	Dōbutsu no Mori
Fool's Requiem	Wipeout 64
Banana	Hybrid Heaven
Cole	Road Rash 64
Tommy Boy	Major League Baseball Featuring Ken Griffey Jr.
Bandicoot	Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Smacktard	Mission: Impossible
Jon	Jet Force Gemini
BigDaddy	NBA Hangtime
Jawneh	Killer Instinct Gold

Dawn of the Final Round
-13 Picks Remain-

User	Game
Jawneh	Snowboard Kids 2
BigDaddy	Rush 2: Extreme Racing USA
Jon	Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2
Smacktard	Star Wars: Battle for Naboo
Bandicoot	Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3
Tommy Boy	South Park
Cole	Paperboy
Banana	Star Wars Episode 1: Racer
Fool's Requiem	Mace: The Dark Age
Fire Queen	WWF Attitude
Rick52	Iggy's Reckin' Balls
The Flame	Dr. Mario 64
Ants!	StarCraft 64

 

[VashTheStampede]

@Jawneh is on the clock to start the draft!

 

[finlandguy]

Oh man... Which of the two titans do I pick. I wasn't expecting to be at the very forefront of the draft.

I think I will have to go with the one I played more and had much fonder memories with.

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

 

[VashTheStampede]

That would have been my pick too.

@BigDaddy is on the clock!

 

[Ants!]

13 is very unlucky. I need a Mr. Baggins to make it 14.

 

[VashTheStampede]

13 is very unlucky. I need a Mr. Baggins to make it 14.

Technically you are #14 too

 

[BigDaddy]

I was dreading being at the top of the draft. There were at least four games I would have been perfectly happy taking first. OoT was one of them. My heart tells me one game, my head tells me another, and then a combination of my heart and head tells me yet another. I suppose I'll go with the combo.

"You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?"

Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

 

[VashTheStampede]

I hate that game

@Jon is next

 

[Jon]

I give up on trying to actually win these, so even though I do not think this is the third best game on N64, I'm taking it here, because it spawned a love of a genre.

Gimme GoldenEye 007 and the flak for not taking some other obvious candidates in this spot.

 

[Smacktard]

I'm up. Super Mario 64 remains, to this day, one of the greatest 3D platformers ever made, and I still think it hasn't been outclassed by any other Mario game.

@Bandicoot is next

(Also, 7 rounds is quite ambitious for such a small library, Vash )

 

[Ants!]

I hate that game

@Jon is next

It's the better of the two zeldas for that system.

 

[Ants!]

I can give a list of reasons why.

 

[finlandguy]

It's the better of the two zeldas for that system.

It's a tough one isn't it. I always felt MM has better mechanics, puzzles, and more content, a lot thanks to being a good sequal. OoT has better story and progression as well as a sense of meaning.

Although, some of the sidequests in MM do add in quite a bit more depth and story-telling, but I'm just talking about the main progression.

My 2 cents. And I by no means dislike MM. Preference is OoT.

 

[BigDaddy]

I hate that game

I definitely knew it would be the more divisive of my options and almost decided to go safer since there are 22 picks until my next one, but why do that when I could give @Smacktard the opportunity to take Mario at #4? Super Mario 64 and Goldeneye were my other two options.

Mario was the one I almost picked instead of MM. It successfully brought Mario into the third dimension and showed that 3D platforming could be done well. While I haven't really played any mainline 3D Marios after it, I'm confident that Kelly's assessment is accurate. Even just running around aimlessly performing all the jumps is fun in and of itself.

Goldeneye is one of the most nostalgic games for me. So much fun playing the multiplayer with three friends. And since I didn't really play shooters after that era, I never became jaded by its outdatedness.

 

[Ants!]

It's a tough one isn't it. I always felt MM has better mechanics, puzzles, and more content, a lot thanks to being a good sequal. OoT has better story and progression as well as a sense of meaning.

Although, some of the sidequests in MM do add in quite a bit more depth and story-telling, but I'm just talking about the main progression.

My 2 cents. And I by no means dislike MM. Preference is OoT.

"Better story" because it rehashed A Link to the Past so OoT was only great because ALttP was great.

 

[shortkut]

"Better story" because it rehashed A Link to the Past so OoT was only great because ALttP was great.

Link’s Awakening > ALttP

Yeah, I said it

 

[finlandguy]

"Better story" because it rehashed A Link to the Past so OoT was only great because ALttP was great.

Could say the same about MM. Many things MM did great, OoT did first to some degree. Not storywise, but gameplay, items, and mechanics.

Would MM even exist without OoT? Would MM even work as a standalone without being a "sequal" in the timeline from OoT?

 

[Smacktard]

Even just running around aimlessly performing all the jumps is fun in and of itself.

This is what the Mario games afterwards sort of got wrong. Movement just isn't as fun, and there's less moves you can pull off. Mario Galaxy had some really fun mechanics and *kind of* got it right, but it was Mario's most limited move set after the switch to 3D.

"Better story" because it rehashed A Link to the Past so OoT was only great because ALttP was great.

Imagine playing a Zelda game for the story.

I don't want to rag on others' choices too much (unless it's the first pick of the draft and they choose "Paperboy"), but I'm not so much a fan of MM. OoT is still one of my all-time favorites, and so is LttP. MM felt a bit underbaked. It could've used another year in the oven to rise to its full potential. Still, I get why people love it so much. It's delightfully weird and uncomfortable in a way no other games really are.

 

[Cole]

marking as read.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I give up on trying to actually win these, so even though I do not think this is the third best game on N64, I'm taking it here, because it spawned a love of a genre.

Gimme GoldenEye 007 and the flak for not taking some other obvious candidates in this spot.

GoldenEye is maybe the game I spent the most time with on this system.

I'm up. Super Mario 64 remains, to this day, one of the greatest 3D platformers ever made, and I still think it hasn't been outclassed by any other Mario game.

@Bandicoot is next

(Also, 7 rounds is quite ambitious for such a small library, Vash )

Pretty sure we've been down this path before but Mario 64 is one of my least favorite Marios and, when taken in a vacuum and discounting how groundbreaking it was at the time, is alongside FF7 as one of the most overrated games in history.

In my very outnumbered opinion.

I can give a list of reasons why.

I just really dislike the whole vibe of the game and it's hard for me to enjoy a game I don't vibe with.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Also another tag for @Bandicoot for funsies. I know he's not super duper active so I might give him a little extension on the deadline.

 

[Ants!]

I could make counterpoints to all of that but at this point I realize I already derailed the thread a little bit. I'll just say that OoT is the most overrated and MM is the most underrated

 

[VashTheStampede]

I could make counterpoints to all of that but at this point I realize I already derailed the thread a little bit. I'll just say that OoT is the most overrated and MM is the most underrated

That's like me saying Super Mario World is the most underrated Mario.

Maybe not the consensus #1 but still a highly respected game with a ton of people who would call it the best.

 

[VashTheStampede]

(Also derailing this thread for these kind of arguments is exactly what the thread is for.

Oh and drafting I guess)

 

[Smacktard]

Best 3D Zelda is subjective, but I don't see how anyone can claim MM has more content than OoT when it has about the same amount of dungeons as only the first half of OoT.

More *optional* content/sidequests, maybe.

 

[Ants!]

Best 3D Zelda is subjective, but I don't see how anyone can claim MM has more content than OoT when it has about the same amount of dungeons as only the first half of OoT.

More *optional* content/sidequests, maybe.

Because one of them played it TOO safe sticking to a familiar formula. Which means it is a good game almost by default, but fully deserves the term "rehash". The other took a risk to go outside the box and was successful in doing that. It was also just a lot more fun to play. And the mood was awesome. But I'll concede those last are subjective things.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Being 9th sucks. I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs awaiting for my pick to come.

For fun, I should just go for the worst possible games in the N64 library. I'm not going to win without the staples of the thin N64 library.

 

[Smacktard]

Because one of them played it TOO safe sticking to a familiar formula

....it virtually invented modern 3D action/adventure games.

...The second one literally reused all of the first one's assets and engine.

 

[Ants!]

Also, by Jawneh's logic, we should write the very first Zelda game for the NES as being the best Zelda ever for no other reason that just because it was first and the rest are just sequels. But answer your question yes, MM can work as a standalone game. OoT was a completed story, link traveled to a completely different area and met completely different people and had a completely different villain, a new player to the series would have nothing to get confused about because he missed it from a previous game.

 

[Ants!]

....it virtually invented modern 3D action/adventure games.

...The second one literally reused all of the first one's assets and engine.

They literally just made 3-D a link to the past with a horse. But you want to talk about the engineering and programming side of it being what makes a game fun for the player? Mario 64 was an awesome game but I don't necessarily think it's the best Mario just because it was the first 3-D and I'm going to call every Mario game after a rehash.

 

[Ants!]

I'm talking play style here. You trying to flip the script by talking about 3-D models is just an alien argument to me.

 

[Smacktard]

They literally just made 3-D a link to the past with a horse. But you want to talk about the engineering and programming side of it being what makes a game fun for the player? Mario 64 was an awesome game but I don't necessarily think it's the best Mario just because it was the first 3-D and I'm going to call every Mario game after a rehash.

...but that's the same reason you said MM is better than OoT, just with story.

 

[Ants!]

...but that's the same reason you said MM is better than OoT, just with story.

no, you are literally the one that said OOT was better because it was the first in 3-D. I don't even get what kind of point you're trying to make here.

 

[Smacktard]

I'm talking play style here. You trying to flip the script by talking about 3-D models is just an alien argument to me.

Ahh okay, now I get you. Yeah the play style of MM is very different compared to OoT and LttP. MM and OoT both involve time travel but MM is more centered around time limit as a mechanic.

 

[Smacktard]

no, you are literally the one that said OOT was better because it was the first in 3-D

No, I think it's better because it's more fun, polished, complete, and content-rich, with fewer obtuse sidequests and annoying mechanics.

 

[Ants!]

It's like if there were two movies and I said the sequel was better because it had much better writing and more original concepts that work, and you say the first was better even though it was full of derivative plots and clichés just because it was the first to use the same special effects that the second movie used.

 

[Ants!]

No, I think it's better because it's more fun, polished, complete, and content-rich, with fewer obtuse sidequests and annoying mechanics.

Fair enough. Although the mechanics and side quests were what made it fun for me and I didn't find either one annoying. But that's an individual's thing I guess.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Windwaker is the best 3D Zelda. I will die on that hill.

 

[Ants!]

Windwaker is the best 3D Zelda. I will die on that hill.

I'm sure it's a great game, but I never played it because it just could never draw me in.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

I'm sure it's a great game, but I never played it because it just could never draw me in.

TBF, it took me three attempts before it really hooked me.

The fort near the start of the game makes it hard to get into because it takes away everything that makes a Zelda game a Zelda game and forces you to play MGS2 as naked Raiden.

 

[VashTheStampede]

They literally just made 3-D a link to the past with a horse. But you want to talk about the engineering and programming side of it being what makes a game fun for the player? Mario 64 was an awesome game but I don't necessarily think it's the best Mario just because it was the first 3-D and I'm going to call every Mario game after a rehash.

I think LttP's dungeon design sucks. OoT only has one I don't like.

There's something to be said for improving on something that's already great.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Ugh I really want to play wind waker one day

 

[Smacktard]

It's like if there were two movies and I said the sequel was better because it had much better writing and more original concepts that work, and you say the first was better even though it was full of derivative plots and clichés just because it was the first to use the same special effects that the second movie used.

If you're only comparing OoT and MM based on their stories, then yes, this analogy works. But who cares about the plot in a fkn Zelda game? It's like saying Baby Geniuses 2 was better than Interstellar because its plot was more fleshed out.

All I'm saying is that you can't decide OoT for being derivative when MM is virtually a carbon copy of everything that made OoT unique, except with a different story (and the ability to change characters, which admittedly was pretty cool).

Anyway:
Is it fun is most important. And for me it's just not fun.

 

[Smacktard]

Wind Waker is nice, but it has a few flaws. The best parts of the game are too few and far between. The sneak part FR mentioned sux but the first dungeon is one of the tops.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Ugh I really want to play wind waker one day

Get ready to here this theme a lot:

 

[Ants!]

I think LttP's dungeon design sucks. OoT only has one I don't like.

There's something to be said for improving on something that's already great.

I found LttP's dungeons fine and had no issues with their design, but I realize I'm older than most people here so it's probably more about what you grew up with. Personally I thought the water dungeon and dark dungeon of OoT were both bloody awful.

 

[Smacktard]

Dude WHAT the dark dungeon is one of the greatest

 

[Ants!]

If you're only comparing OoT and MM based on their stories, then yes, this analogy works. But who cares about the plot in a fkn Zelda game? It's like saying Baby Geniuses 2 was better than Interstellar because its plot was more fleshed out.

All I'm saying is that you can't decide OoT for being derivative when MM is virtually a carbon copy of everything that made OoT unique, except with a different story (and the ability to change characters, which admittedly was pretty cool).

Anyway:
Is it fun is most important. And for me it's just not fun.

I only mentioned writing because I was using movies as an analogy. I've never made it a point about Zelda's stories, that was Jawneh. My point has always been about the gameplay and style. MM was not derivative of OoT, or at least nowhere near the same level as OoT was derivative of LttP.

Fair point about being fun, that's you. Me? I found MM much much much more enjoyable that OoT. But I understand if MM just didn't jive with you.

 

[Ants!]

Dude WHAT the dark dungeon is one of the greatest

Fuuuuuuuuck no

 

[Smacktard]

My point has always been about the gameplay and style

Wait wait wait... I'm not understanding. I thought your point was that the STORY of OoT is derivative of LttP, and therefore it's not as good.

Now you're saying MM is better because the gameplay is better, even though MM is derivative of OoT since the same mechanics are used largely throughout.

I am confus.