Fascinating Earth Finds

[Smacktard]

Curious what era it would take place in. Pre-Islamic history in Saudi Arabia is disgustingly underresearched, undervalued, and underlined. There are so many crazy mysteries across the Middle East. There are tens of thousands of earthworks and no one has any real idea about what purpose they served, or who built them, or whether they're all connected in some way.

I mean, AssCreed probably isn't going to go into that, but it would be cool if it did revitalize some interest in pre-Islamic history.

 

[canadaguy]

Curious what era it would take place in. Pre-Islamic history in Saudi Arabia is disgustingly underresearched, undervalued, and underlined. There are so many crazy mysteries across the Middle East. There are tens of thousands of earthworks and no one has any real idea about what purpose they served, or who built them, or whether they're all connected in some way.

I mean, AssCreed probably isn't going to go into that, but it would be cool if it did revitalize some interest in pre-Islamic history.

I remember you sharing some of your adventures of wandering through ancient ruins and how they are all over the place

 

[Smacktard]

I remember you sharing some of your adventures of wandering through ancient ruins and how they are all over the place

I walked a few hours through the desert once to reach one that was a kilometer long. Completely untouched for thousands of years.

 

[Ben]

I walked a few hours through the desert once to reach one that was a kilometer long. Completely untouched for thousands of years.

I ain't much for touristy crap, but this sounds like it'd be absolutely fascinating.

I've listened to some paranormal stories about djinn and such, which had "walking through the desert for hours and sneaking into ruins at night" vibes, but those were probably out of Petra up in Jordan. Still feel like any desert trek would have me pondering all that mythology.

 

[Smacktard]

I ain't much for touristy crap, but this sounds like it'd be absolutely fascinating.

I've listened to some paranormal stories about djinn and such, which had "walking through the desert for hours and sneaking into ruins at night" vibes, but those were probably out of Petra up in Jordan. Still feel like any desert trek would have me pondering all that mythology.

Oh man, this shit would be right up your alley. It's not touristy at all -- I found these places by using the satellite view of Google Maps and scouring the desert for anything that looked weird. Had to rent a car and drive a couple of hours into the desert and then walk for a few more down an old riverbed to get to one of them. Here's what they look like from above:


The formation is on the bottom left, and you can see these big empty spaces that have been cleared of rock. I'm not sure if they're old foundations or if (more modern) nomadic groups just cleared those spaces to use for tents.


Here's a really good example. This isn't the one I hiked to, but it's something like it.

 

[Ben]

Oh man, this shit would be right up your alley. It's not touristy at all -- I found these places by using the satellite view of Google Maps and scouring the desert for anything that looked weird. Had to rent a car and drive a couple of hours into the desert and then walk for a few more down an old riverbed to get to one of them. Here's what they look like from above:

View attachment 34250
The formation is on the bottom left, and you can see these big empty spaces that have been cleared of rock. I'm not sure if they're old foundations or if (more modern) nomadic groups just cleared those spaces to use for tents.

View attachment 34251
Here's a really good example. This isn't the one I hiked to, but it's something like it.

Duuuuuuude, that's amazing and I've lost at least 30 minutes poking around that area on Google Earth.

I'm guessing those long dark strips are potentially dug-out channels? They scream irrigation/aqueducts given how meticulously straight they are... And if so that'd support the idea that the area you visited was once some kind of settlement. They're LONG though...




The one I see starting at the site you went to goes South West about 1,337 meters (~0.83 miles), until I lost track of it in the rockier patch.

But then further South West still there's an even longer parallel set of (assumed) trenches.



I don't think this is the same spot in your second image. They converge at a similar circular arrangement though.



(

)

Almost directly pointing towards your first site.



These are about 2,131.12 meters long (~1.32 miles)...



From a wider look at the terrain I'd hazard to say at one point it had far more water, as those absolutely look like river erosion fingers or whatever you'd call them oh duh, you said it was an old river bed. I think the nearest river on the map is way the fuck over there near Rahat, and while it's not showing me elevation really I'm thinking that's more mountainous.

(EDIT: There's an elevation change that I just noticed on the point-measurement. 1074.95m at the longer set and 1053.87m at your site. Would also suggest they might be to transport water.)



Shit. Maybe I'm lucky I'm a broke introvert with too many children to have hobbies. Otherwise I'd wander off into the world somewhere chasing interesting looking shit and never be seen again.

....The fuck thread is this again? Oh right, video games.

In all honesty an AC game exploring these regions could be super interesting, it's just the whole how it's funded thing that's weird.

 

[Smacktard]

I'm guessing those long dark strips are potentially dug-out channels? They scream irrigation/aqueducts given how meticulously straight they are... And if so that'd support the idea that the area you visited was once some kind of settlement. They're LONG though...

Haha wow a lot to work with in this post. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's utterly fascinated by these things. I have dozens of them saved and bookmarked. They're all across Saudi. If you look up "Khaybar" you can find the more famous ones. They're very different from the ones here. Much smaller, unique designs.

But just to clear up a misconception, these aren't channels or trenches dug. They're heaps of rocks that have been piled up that way. These spots tend to be in pretty flat, non-mountainous areas. There's a bunch of theories for their existence (trapping animals, waypoints, religious in nature) but nothing clear. There are some even at the top of steeps hills and mountains, so the argument that they're used for trapping game doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[Ben]

Haha wow a lot to work with in this post. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's utterly fascinated by these things. I have dozens of them saved and bookmarked. They're all across Saudi. If you look up "Khaybar" you can find the more famous ones. They're very different from the ones here. Much smaller, unique designs.

But just to clear up a misconception, these aren't channels or trenches dug. They're heaps of rocks that have been piled up that way. These spots tend to be in pretty flat, non-mountainous areas. There's a bunch of theories for their existence (trapping animals, waypoints, religious in nature) but nothing clear. There are some even at the top of steeps hills and mountains, so the argument that they're used for trapping game doesn't seem to make sense.

Huh. Well then what the hell. Waypoints or heading markers would make some sense maybe. Trapping seems a long shot but who knows.

I do see what you mean about weird shit up on hills, etc. I checked around Khaybar and after following a dam/river nearby a bit I spotted this weird shit on an elevated part.



I'm trying to resist going and looking for all those theories about what they could be.

Edit: oh, it must just be where the green Power Ranger landed...

 

[Smacktard]

Huh. Well then what the hell. Waypoints or heading markers would make some sense maybe. Trapping seems a long shot but who knows.

I do see what you mean about weird shit up on hills, etc. I checked around Khaybar and after following a dam/river nearby a bit I spotted this weird shit on an elevated part.

View attachment 34285

I'm trying to resist going and looking for all those theories about what they could be.

Edit: oh, it must just be where the green Power Ranger landed...

View attachment 34286

There's a documentary about them that aims to answer some questions. It doesn't really do the job, but here you are:

BBC Four - The Mystery of the Desert Kites

An international team of archaeologists explores megastructures in the Arabian desert.

www.bbc.co.uk

Also some reading:

The mystery of the 'desert kites' in the Saudi wilderness

For almost a century it was believed that the ‘works of the old men’ of Arabia were actually a predominantly Levantine phenomenon. That the vast expanse

www.esquireme.com

Also, someone found a human jaw bone inside of one and what looks like a small piece of some jewelry that was left behind.

 

[Ben]

There's a documentary about them that aims to answer some questions. It doesn't really do the job, but here you are:

BBC Four - The Mystery of the Desert Kites

An international team of archaeologists explores megastructures in the Arabian desert.

www.bbc.co.uk

Also some reading:

The mystery of the 'desert kites' in the Saudi wilderness

For almost a century it was believed that the ‘works of the old men’ of Arabia were actually a predominantly Levantine phenomenon. That the vast expanse

www.esquireme.com

Also, someone found a human jaw bone inside of one and what looks like a small piece of some jewelry that was left behind.

(Documentary wouldn't play in the US, but I did read the article and it seems pretty certain of itself that they were for hunting. I don't know that I'd agree with that alone, there's too much weird shit that doesn't fit that purpose.)



This sure as fuck looks like it's a god damned arrow pointing at something...




I couldn't find a Square or an X in the immediate area, but I'm guessing the ancient people here were Playstation fanboys.



This is just a fucking person...



I don't even know what the shit is happening here, but that sure as fuck doesn't seem like it was made to trap animals. Some of the bigger ones I could maybe see working in that manner, but so many so close together?

Man now I'm going to be disappointed if that AC game doesn't feature all this stuff.

 

[Smacktard]

(Documentary wouldn't play in the US, but I did read the article and it seems pretty certain of itself that they were for hunting. I don't know that I'd agree with that alone, there's too much weird shit that doesn't fit that purpose.)

There's simply no way all of those monuments are for trapping game. I've seen some of them in person. Some of them are at the top of a steep mountain where there would be no point at all in trapping game. Other kites have double walls with a narrow, hollow interior, which would make no sense to go through the effort of building when just one wall would serve the same purpose. I know for a fact that a human was buried in the mound of at least one. I don't buy the theory that the kits were exclusively used for hunting. Some of them may have been, but not all of them.

This is just a fucking person...

Dude, where did you see this one? I've never seen anything like it.

 

[Ben]

Dude, where did you see this one? I've never seen anything like it.

It was North West of Khaybar. Almost directly North of the Khaybar Water Reserve. 25°47'35"N 39°12'07"E for easy.

It was at the end of one of these incredibly long complex "christmas trees". This one stuck out as different.





Some of the other "trees" I spotted.



I did notice the volcanoes to the East, and wondered if the "triangle" or "triangle with circle on top" ones might be some sign/warning about those, but they don't necessarily line up in any way.



Very wild, Kelly.

 

[Smacktard]

It was North West of Khaybar. Almost directly North of the Khaybar Water Reserve. 25°47'35"N 39°12'07"E for easy.

It was at the end of one of these incredibly long complex "christmas trees". This one stuck out as different.

View attachment 34292

View attachment 34295

Some of the other "trees" I spotted.

View attachment 34294

I did notice the volcanoes to the East, and wondered if the "triangle" or "triangle with circle on top" ones might be some sign/warning about those, but they don't necessarily line up in any way.

View attachment 34296

Very wild, Kelly.

Hella trippy, man. It's the first time I've seen some of those designs. The Khaybar "keys" are well known, but the designs outside of Khaybar are much more obscure. Those volcanoes are likely what killed off/drove out/substantially changed the culture of the area. When those "kites" were first built, those volcanoes were not dormant, and the area was lush and green. You can see plenty of old river beds and what would've been shallow lakes on Google Maps. The kites tend to be more common around water sources.

I love that you got into researching this haha. I don't normally offer people to come visit in Saudi (why would I?) but if you ever have interest in coming here and hiking out to see some of these in person, let me know and I would definitely meet up with you and make that happen.

 

[Ben]

I copied Kelly's post that started this in the 2025 Release thread and moved the other posts, so that one is not getting cluttered with my intrigued ramblings.

Hella trippy, man. It's the first time I've seen some of those designs. The Khaybar "keys" are well known, but the designs outside of Khaybar are much more obscure. Those volcanoes are likely what killed off/drove out/substantially changed the culture of the area. When those "kites" were first built, those volcanoes were not dormant, and the area was lush and green. You can see plenty of old river beds and what would've been shallow lakes on Google Maps. The kites tend to be more common around water sources.

I knew the region had an incredibly rich history in regards to the first continually populated cities, religions that arose from there, etc. but I don't think I ever knew just how volcanic the UAE was (or, was in history.) But there are so many that had to have been active (geologically) recently.

I have spent way too long looking around Google Earth, even trying to add lines on top of all the ones I could find, but they never end. I do notice they all tend to be oriented pointing towards the East, which is another thing that makes me wonder if they've got something to do with an active volcano.





In some sense, these repeating designs almost look like someone drawing a magma flow moving down a mountain. That could hypothetically explain why they seem to be "extended" a lot, if it showed the progression over time. That'd seem crazy for truly ancient civilizations to do though...



The other thing I wonder: I'm assuming the incredibly common "circles" all over the place, as circled in red below, are probably craters from falling rock during a volcanic eruption. They're pretty far away from the bigger volcanoes but the amount of energy some of them must have gone off with, it's not impossible. All the "Circle-Line" structures, what if someone witnessed a flaming boulder fly out of the sky and land there, and they build up a structure around it? Wouldn't be out of the real of possibility for them to worship something like that.

I love that you got into researching this haha. I don't normally offer people to come visit in Saudi (why would I?) but if you ever have interest in coming here and hiking out to see some of these in person, let me know and I would definitely meet up with you and make that happen.

I am the most shut in son of a bitch and haven't traveled to sight-see anything basically since I moved to America 20 years ago. But I have to admit, "I should visit the UAE Saudi Arabia*" was not something I thought I'd catch myself thinking over the past couple of days. If I ever fix my document situation and can travel the world, this may now be on my bucket list and maybe some day I'll hit you up.

If I'd followed my childhood dream, I'd have been a paleontologist. Archeology isn't far removed. I'd forgotten what that wonder and wanting to unravel a mystery felt like, but this shit is why I should have done that.

*I always conflate Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. I realize they are not the same thing.

 

[Nae'blis]

Damn, this is really fascinating! So cool.

 

[Ben]

Damn, this is really fascinating! So cool.

It really is.

@Smacktard I meant to ask, how do people generally treat these things? Are they like, historic landmarks? Or does no one give a fuck and they're in the way most of the time?

I found a spot (25°45'39"N 39°19'18"E) where there are clearly bulldozed strips into the basalt. Some of them cross the earthworks, some of them I wonder if they were specifically trying to remove those structures.

There's also one patch of map that refuses to load at a higher resolution. I'm going to assume that's where the drawing of an alien is.

 

[Smacktard]

The way you traced the lines of those formations was really interesting. I hadn't done that before. How did you piece together those maps from smaller photos? It's all very seamless.

I can see how some of them may have been used to trap game. You can see these extended funnel shapes. But others don't seem to have the same purpose. Specifically, the small round mounds with a line coming from them seem to have been used for funerary purposes, but this is my own speculation, based on uhhhhhh personal findings. I think many of them have been looted over the centuries, though.

The other thing I wonder: I'm assuming the incredibly common "circles" all over the place, as circled in red below, are probably craters from falling rock during a volcanic eruption.

I'll clear up a misconception -- those red circles are just natural formations. They look like "things" on a map, but they're just small mounds of rock, or slightly elevated hilltops or something.

If I'd followed my childhood dream, I'd have been a paleontologist.

Haha that was my dream as a kid.

Archeology isn't far removed

Was also thinking yesterday that, if I were to do another job, I'd liked to have done that, and specifically to study these rock formations. It's still not clear what culture or civilization created them. The Bedouin Arabs call them something like "the works from the men of old".

 

[Smacktard]

@Smacktard I meant to ask, how do people generally treat these things? Are they like, historic landmarks? Or does no one give a fuck and they're in the way most of the time?

Yeah, MOSTLY the latter. They sometimes even get bulldo-...

I found a spot (25°45'39"N 39°19'18"E) where there are clearly bulldozed strips into the basalt. Some of them cross the earthworks, some of them I wonder if they were specifically trying to remove those structures

Yeah. I don't think they're specifically trying to move them. I think they just don't give a fuck. Most Arabs have never heard of them or even seen them. There's almost no interest in history here, and even less in pre-Islamic history.

The structures extend all the way from Jordan down to Yemen, and across as far as Dharhan area. Most of them, and the most unique ones, are in Khaybar. There are a ton of lesser-known ones north-east of Jeddah -- that first location I shared with you.

 

[Smacktard]

Update! Related, but not quite the same thing.

Apparently some ancient site locations have been identified and catalogued in some way over the past 4 or 5 years. There were archaeology teams logging the desert kites, and a few have been excavated (as seen in the documentary), but thousands still remain that haven't been explored in closer detail.

Below are tombs/burial sites that I I spotted years ago, and which now apparently have a sign nearby indicating what they are:


Those mounds are similar to the small circular "kites" with small tails, but they're lacking the tails.



These are similar to ones that I've seen in person. These look more "hollowed out" than some of the others I've seen, which are just piles of volcanic rock stacked up in a mound. These come from the Dilmun civilization, and so aren't related to the desert kites, but are interesting nonetheless!

 

[Smacktard]

Also, just learned about mustatil, which have their own Wikipedia page. Super cool. They appear to be very locally isolated around Khaybar, but they seem familiar. I swear I've seen some in the outskirts of Jeddah, before.

 

[Ben]

Can't be bothered to fight with quotes on my phone, so just generally replying.

I was using Google Earth on my PC to poke around. It's got decent path/polygon tools, measurements, elevation/slope details, etc.

I'd wondered if all of them together made up some larger image and figured marking the actual shapes would help. Plus, with Earth you can rotate in 3D and adjust the angle of the camera which makes it very useful for pondering whether these are pointing at anything in particular.

The red circled spots do just look like craters, so I expected they were natural. I'd just wondered if the mounds connected by stacked rock lines were once craters too and someone just connected the dots as it were. Seems very unlikely given the repetition of that same pattern though.

Your pointing out they're funeral mounds though brings me back to another thought I had, that they could perhaps be 'family trees' in a sense. What if each branch represented a child, and the varying number of family members accounts for the number of mounds? Doesn't really account for a lot of them though, I guess.

Or star maps and someone trying to put together constellations or something.



Maybe I should get a VPN just to watch that documentary. Or bother looking for it elsewhere.

 

[Smacktard]

Your pointing out they're funeral mounds though brings me back to another thought I had, that they could perhaps be 'family trees' in a sense. What if each branch represented a child, and the varying number of family members accounts for the number of mounds? Doesn't really account for a lot of them though, I guess.

It's an interesting theory, but based on what I've seen, it doesn't quite seem to play out. I've seen mounds with very long tails but which are, themselves, quite small. Star charts could be a possibility, I suppose. I'd love to know why some are utterly massive, some are quite long, and more still are teeny. I'd love to know what the shapes represent. If they're able to put so much effort into making such complex geometry across such a large space, you'd think that they'd have documented it in writing somehow!

 

[shortkut]

I'd love to know why some are utterly massive, some are quite long, and more still are teeny

 

[Jawneh]

Those are all places where you find a dragons tear.

Haven't yall played TotK?

But cool stuff. I might have a look around at some point too.

 

[Christina]

Looking at this thread reminds me of the time I heard an archeologist say, "ancient peoples had a lot of time on their hands compaired to us today." No TV, video games, cell phone scrolling. No commute to work. Most people didn't read, so not even spending your down time reading. Sure some tasks took longer to do, like gathering water, washing clothes, and hunting, but over all people had a lot more down time to fill. Imagine what some people would end up doing just to fill the time. Also imagine just being able to take your sweet time with every task you had to do, because you had all day to get it done. So there's a good chance the reason that some ancient stuff was built is just because it was something to do.

Bonus fact, I wanted to be an archeologist for most of my childhood. (Well I wanted to be Indian Jones, but same thing) I would love to wonder around and explore those places, but something tells me as a female that would be a terrible idea.

 

[Ben]

Looking at this thread reminds me of the time I heard an archeologist say, "ancient peoples had a lot of time on their hands compaired to us today." No TV, video games, cell phone scrolling. No commute to work. Most people didn't read, so not even spending your down time reading. Sure some tasks took longer to do, like gathering water, washing clothes, and hunting, but over all people had a lot more down time to fill. Imagine what some people would end up doing just to fill the time. Also imagine just being able to take your sweet time with every task you had to do, because you had all day to get it done. So there's a good chance the reason that some ancient stuff was built is just because it was something to do.

Bonus fact, I wanted to be an archeologist for most of my childhood. (Well I wanted to be Indian Jones, but same thing) I would love to wonder around and explore those places, but something tells me as a female that would be a terrible idea.

Absolutely agree with you on the sheer amount of time they had to work on these things.

I don't imagine they were going to extremes moving the rocks a long distance, like Stonehenge or the pyramids. I assume they were just using rocks already there and probably moving them a few dozen feet to pile up the lines.

I don't know what a realistic expectation of distance covered per hour would be, but I'd hazard to say you'd get 20-30 feet done in that time. Over 12 hours that'd be 240-360 feet. Over a month, 7,200-10,800 feet. So the ones that extend for miles, if you're able to work on it without much else going on, start to seem possible.

I read some more articles on the idea they're massive traps for entire herds of animals. It does seem plausible given that I'm sure lots of grazing animals won't try to cross a rocky wall if they can help it. If the pits at the edges of the kites are really 6 feet deep or so, driving game to jump over at that point would be effective, but the shapes just don't seem efficient for that purpose half the time.

The orientation might make sense related to migration patterns, given they're all open on the west side (around Khaybar at least) and funnel to the east. If you know herds come through there every season, whether you want to trap them for food or you want to stop the grazers from getting into your newly discovered agriculture fields, giant traps would accomplish that.

They're just so weirdly inefficient in shape though. Barring a few Christmas tree looking ones that have clear funnels, some of them seem very random. Kind of takes me back to thinking they used craters from volcanic rock to start the pits and maybe just built up around them a bit, to reduce the amount of work.

I need to poke around for the non-Saudi ones in other regions around there. Apparently the ones in Jordan are more complex and get simpler the further south you go, implying a transfer of knowledge but losing the skillfulness.

 

[Kat]

Looking at this thread reminds me of the time I heard an archeologist say, "ancient peoples had a lot of time on their hands compaired to us today." No TV, video games, cell phone scrolling. No commute to work. Most people didn't read, so not even spending your down time reading. Sure some tasks took longer to do, like gathering water, washing clothes, and hunting, but over all people had a lot more down time to fill.

Hmm, is that really true? Sure, they had fewer tech distractions, but surely they also had a lot less leisure time to fill. Stuff like gathering water and food is much more time consuming when you can't just open a faucet or run to the store.

I'm sure they did have some free time and did plenty of random things with it, though.

 

[Ben]

Hmm, is that really true? Sure, they had fewer tech distractions, but surely they also had a lot less leisure time to fill. Stuff like gathering water and food is much more time consuming when you can't just open a faucet or run to the store.

I'm sure they did have some free time and did plenty of random things with it, though.

It's something I've heard regarding medieval peasants in England before, so I'm sure it tracks to older nomadic groups too. Their work day was only a couple of hours at most.

Also once people started staying in one place and forming communities, you're sharing those responsibilities among everyone else.

 

[Kat]

It's something I've heard regarding medieval peasants in England before, so I'm sure it tracks to older nomadic groups too. Their work day was only a couple of hours at most.

Also once people started staying in one place and forming communities, you're sharing those responsibilities among everyone else.

WTF? We really fucked up with this whole civilization thing, didn't we?

 

[Christina]

It's something I've heard regarding medieval peasants in England before, so I'm sure it tracks to older nomadic groups too. Their work day was only a couple of hours at most.

Also once people started staying in one place and forming communities, you're sharing those responsibilities among everyone else.

Some of the Native American tribes would find a heard of buffalo. Separate a part of them and drive them off a cliff. It would then only take them a few days to dry out the meat and turn it all into pemmican. They would set on food for a long while and not need to hunt.

Most people throughout history didn't work a strict 8 hour or 2 hour day. There would be a lot of days with little work and some harvest days with lots of work. Unless you are in a place we're food was scarce or crop failures.

 

[Christina]

WTF? We really fucked up with this whole civilization thing, didn't we?

Yup! Just like modern day, rich people messing it up for the majority by hoarding all the resources.

 

[Smacktard]

WTF? We really fucked up with this whole civilization thing, didn't we?

On the other hand, we can easily and affordably eat food that was reserved exclusively for literal royalty, we have much more ease of access to the rest of the planet, almost the entire collective wealth of human knowledge is at our fingertips, and I also regularly get to enjoy memes about big tiddy goth girls

 

[Christina]

On the other hand, we can easily and affordably eat food that was reserved exclusively for literal royalty, we have much more ease of access to the rest of the planet, almost the entire collective wealth of human knowledge is at our fingertips, and I also regularly get to enjoy memes about big tiddy goth girls

I saw a thing recently that said if you are feeling bad about were you are in life go look at all your spice rack and remember you are 16th century noble.

 

[Smacktard]

I saw a thing recently that said if you are feeling bad about were you are in life go look at all your spice rack and remember you are 16th century noble.

It's hard for us to imagine/process because this baseline shifted long before we were born. Now, throughout our lives, we're seeing it regress in many large and meaningful ways, with inflation and increasingly expensive basic goods.

 

[Christina]

It's hard for us to imagine/process because this baseline shifted long before we were born. Now, throughout our lives, we're seeing it regress in many large and meaningful ways, with inflation and increasingly expensive basic goods.

I grew up poor to parents that grew up poor to people that had survived the Great Depression. Hot dogs and sauerkraut was a regular meal we had. Every time I see somebody say that their grocery costs are "kill them" and they show that look at what few things I could afford and every freaking time one of those things is bottled water. People don't know how to drink the water out of their faucet. If I'm going to spend money on a liquid, there better be a flavor to it. People never taught how to shop at a grocery store, blows my mind. That was something that was taught to me at such a young age.

 

[Ben]

I saw a thing recently that said if you are feeling bad about were you are in life go look at all your spice rack and remember you are 16th century noble.

I've seen the same, from a "one single Takis would kill a middle ages peasant" angle.

Some of the Native American tribes would find a heard of buffalo. Separate a part of them and drive them off a cliff. It would then only take them a few days to dry out the meat and turn it all into pemmican. They would set on food for a long while and not need to hunt.

Most people throughout history didn't work a strict 8 hour or 2 hour day. There would be a lot of days with little work and some harvest days with lots of work. Unless you are in a place we're food was scarce or crop failures.

I knew about buffalo runs over cliffs, or onto icy rivers, etc. Some of the desert kites do lead to cliffs but I guess that area is just largely too flat.

Also that other cultures, that might have used these in less arid areas, probably used organic material for guiding walls and such, that wouldn't survive as well over time.

I dunno, they're just so incredibly vast it seems crazy for it all to be just for the purpose of catching game.

 

[Kat]

Those ruins are super cool. There aren't really any old buildings or ruins here in the USA, especially on the west coast.

 

[Ben]

Those ruins are super cool. There aren't really any old buildings or ruins here in the USA, especially on the west coast.

I grew up in a village with a church built in 1120-1130 AD. There were foundation marks in the cow fields from where a castle stood until it was ruined in 1433. A great hall built in 1550 changed ownership until 1902 when it was purchased by Charles Wicksteed, who eventually turned it into a park. Wicksteed invented the playground swing.

I truly laugh any time an America has tried telling me something in this county (probably in Boston) is "old".

But these desert kites being 33,000 years old? Fucking mind blowing that they still exist and are so common local people just see them as in the way for the most part.

Church;

The alleyway that runs just below the church in that picture had a metal post towards the cemetery end, and it was very much a legend that some noble woman had been executed and her head put on that spike. Probably just made up, but there are other ghost stories from around the area too.

Castle ruins;

 

[Christina]

We really do have super old stuff here in the US, it's just that it's from the Native Americans and looks very different and often hard to find. A lot of it more in the west. Also doesn't help that the White Europeans who took over destroyed a lot of it.

13 Amazing Southwest Native American Ruins https://share.google/PvWn2ltI9kegWUPL6

 

[Ben]

We really do have super old stuff here in the US, it's just that it's from the Native Americans and looks very different and often hard to find. A lot of it more in the west. Also doesn't help that the White Europeans who took over destroyed a lot of it.

13 Amazing Southwest Native American Ruins https://share.google/PvWn2ltI9kegWUPL6

Oh, you're absolutely right. I was purely thinking from the standpoint of discussions with white people being all "this was where the pilgrims landed! It's old!" type shit.

You probably do have a point about most older stuff in the US being further out West. All my time has been on the East coast and there's not a whole lot of native stuff just around in every day life. Town/state names really seem to be the main hold out of native history.

Native history, and by extension the Mesoamerican cultures, are super interesting too.

 

[dimmerwit]

Physical geography is also amazing. Thinking of Kelly, it's incredible how different Canada and Saudi Arabia look!





If that doesn't seem suitably impressive, what if I told you the top picture was Canada and the bottom Saudi Arabia?

 

[Ben]

Physical geography is also amazing. Thinking of Kelly, it's incredible how different Canada and Saudi Arabia look!

View attachment 34370

View attachment 34372

If that doesn't seem suitably impressive, what if I told you the top picture was Canada and the bottom Saudi Arabia?

I mean, I'm not shocked at all. But you did get me I'll admit.

Maine technically has a desert, too.

 

[Kat]

We really do have super old stuff here in the US, it's just that it's from the Native Americans and looks very different and often hard to find. A lot of it more in the west. Also doesn't help that the White Europeans who took over destroyed a lot of it.

13 Amazing Southwest Native American Ruins https://share.google/PvWn2ltI9kegWUPL6

I stand corrected! I figured they hadn't made structures that were still standing, but it makes sense that some would be in the SW. That's definitely close enough to go visit and explore.

 

[Christina]

I mean, I'm not shocked at all. But you did get me I'll admit.

Maine technically has a desert, too.

View attachment 34374

Florida has a bunch of little deserts. They are found on golf courses....I'll see my way out....

 

[Kat]

Oregon has a stretch of sand dunes near the ocean, in the forest. It's wild to hike through: it goes forest -> deserty sand dunes -> more forest -> beach, over a few miles. It's especially strange because the Oregon coast is generally chilly, but those dunes get hot. It feels like you're wandering the desert even though you're within a couple miles of the beach.

 

[dimmerwit]

Florida has a bunch of little deserts. They are found on golf courses....I'll see my way out....

Tell me about it. I never enjoy my monthly beach holidays!

Oregon has a stretch of sand dunes near the ocean, in the forest. It's wild to hike through: it goes forest -> deserty sand dunes -> more forest -> beach, over a few miles. It's especially strange because the Oregon coast is generally chilly, but those dunes get hot. It feels like you're wandering the desert even though you're within a couple miles of the beach.

It's quite common to have coastal sand dunes in places that have high enough winds and geographic features that can trap the sand long enough for it to dry out, even in climates that are not particularly dry. There are some in the UK although not as big as yours.

For example the dunes below, which I've actually been to, in the famous desert climate of...New Zealand.

 

[Smacktard]

Physical geography is also amazing. Thinking of Kelly, it's incredible how different Canada and Saudi Arabia look!

View attachment 34370

View attachment 34372

If that doesn't seem suitably impressive, what if I told you the top picture was Canada and the bottom Saudi Arabia?

Where are those dunes in Canada? I can't think of anywhere with sand like that. Do the Alberta tar sands look like that? Is that just a creative shit of some PEI sands? I don't think the sands there are that red...

 

[Christina]

Tell me about it. I never enjoy my monthly beach holidays!


It's quite common to have coastal sand dunes in places that have high enough winds and geographic features that can trap the sand long enough for it to dry out, even in climates that are not particularly dry. There are some in the UK although not as big as yours.

For example the dunes below, which I've actually been to, in the famous desert climate of...New Zealand.

View attachment 34375

We call them beach berm here. They are not as big as they used to be, due to things like condos being built. After ever hurricane that comes through they have to go and build them back up because they act as a flood and wind barrier. It still amazes me what Florida builds on sand and that it lasts for any length of time. Our weather and swampyness is probably why you will not find very little old stuff here. I'm pretty sure people were not meant to live here.

 

[dimmerwit]

Where are those dunes in Canada? I can't think of anywhere with sand like that. Do the Alberta tar sands look like that? Is that just a creative shit of some PEI sands? I don't think the sands there are that red...

It is the Athabasca Sand Dunes. The colour is really down to the time of day being near dawn or dusk, and in the daytime proper they are much closer to white.

 

[Nae'blis]

Maine technically has a desert, too.

Technically, Antarctica is also a desert.