dead

[Kat]

Because apparently we had a cupided wolf that may have been trying to drive things in a certain direction?

Oh, fair, I wasn't including Cupid as a solo in my mind because they have a team to win with. But yeah it's technically classified as one.

 

[Jon]

Or is there a purpose to not miss leading about it. Benzine has said a wolf and townie are cupided. Whoever that wolf was didn't tell the rest of us, which means they are playing for the cupid win first.

Zell knows better. Which makes me wonder if him and Fool's are paired. Zell would thus know that Kat had the trickster on her. He jails her and kills her to help hide Fool's. Plays along with her being a real wolf. They would know who the other wolf is, but they need the solo killer dead and enough town folks dead first before taking out the last wolf.

I 100% brought this up in the chat after you died. I specifically mentioned that we couldn't ignore the solo roles and that I was neither cupided or instigated. And proceeded to say I would admit if I were because I don't like that level of betrayal those roles create. I also said I wouldn't blame them if they were and 1) said nothing or 2) lied because it's part of the game. Both other wolves said they weren't, one I believed, Fool's was a little more obtuse. So you're theory feels incredibly accurate.

Not to mention Zell is a perfect candidate to be cupided. And this just means that even the other wolf that is hiding well (I'm not sure if they've been revealed so I won't say anything for now), won't survive the inevitable betrayal anyway. Which is a little sad for that person (and reason number 6 million I despise the Cupid role).

Does Cupid get to partner two specific players or is it randomized like everyone else's power?

They can pick whomever. Instigator gets a random wolf and town.

The wolves made me look like a wolf and people believed it?? I feel like I was pretty obviously a solo role. I don't fuck around like that as a wolf, and I'd at least attempt to defend myself as a townie.

The other hidden wolf 100% saw through that and believed you to be a solo. I felt that was the case too, especially with a lack of kills. I mentioned that SK or Arso was the most likely left. With Zell playing the "play it as an Arso until proven otherwise" lends more credence to Christina's theory.

Good, mission accomplished then.

Why would the wolves attack me in either case? The fool is more helpful to them alive! Silly wolves.

I assume by this you were not the Cupid but the solo killer then, @Kat? This would make sense because Zell and Fool's would know there is no fool or headhunter, and Fool's would know that since you were the solo killer, we couldn't kill you and Zell would be able to take out the biggest threat to wiping out the Cupid team.

I tried to use your death to pretend I was the Fool to at least give pause to killing me, but not gonna lie, my heart wasn't fully in this game. I participated and tried to help the wolves without hindering them too much, but I just wasn't focused. So, I'm sorry @Christina...

Like Christina said earlier, way too many town seer types in this game. I don't remember who said it, but I don't think the wolves ever thought "we were going to win" at any point in the game. I won't speak for them, but I know I didn't.

 

[Benzine]

I dunno about too many seers. But you guys definitely didn’t do anything about them, and they did catch you pronto.

i've had my first instance of lack of clarity in the rules and zell is alive so i have gone with what i've gone with

 

[Ants!]

What was Kat's actual role?

 

[Benzine]

arsonist

 

[Ants!]

Ah damn. That's too bad.

I guess FR is still a wolf though, given Christina and Jon's statements.

 

[Ants!]

Who has gasoline on them?

 

[Benzine]

Who has gasoline on them?

You and Vash were first, then Jon and Alu were next, I think.

 

[Ants!]

 

[Jon]

I dunno about too many seers. But you guys definitely didn’t do anything about them, and they did catch you pronto.

I'm not sure HOW we could have done anything about them. We had one kill per night and no seer role ourselves. We were plotting our kills just as blind faith-like as the town. And obviously with a double agent too, which makes things exponentially tougher.

Honestly, any of these Cupid type roles targeting a wolf essentially spells the end of the wolf team. Being able to come away with a win is tough enough, but with a double agent, it's nearly impossible.

 

[Benzine]

I'm not sure HOW we could have done anything about them. We had one kill per night and no seer role ourselves. We were plotting our kills just as blind faith-like as the town. And obviously with a double agent too, which makes things exponentially tougher.

Honestly, any of these Cupid type roles targeting a wolf essentially spells the end of the wolf team. Being able to come away with a win is tough enough, but with a double agent, it's nearly impossible.

I think I do agree with your last comment generally - that'd be really tough and just a scheduled loss. If there was a game to try it though, I really think this would've been one of the best.

For the first comment though - I think you had a good opportunity to just add any pretend seer information? When everyone is seemingly doing it (although day 1 it was only 2 people who said anything, they just happened to have great guesses - then dimmer joins on day 2 cause violinist), you are gonna hide well amongst the crowd for at least a day.

I basically think you just need to always have a wolf lying about being a seer. If you don't, it hurts more when there are lots of real seers.

Most of all, you were unlucky that Ants and kut did such a great job quickly picking up the wolves who are dead and dying.

 

[Jon]

I think I do agree with your last comment generally - that'd be really tough and just a scheduled loss. If there was a game to try it though, I really think this would've been one of the best.

For the first comment though - I think you had a good opportunity to just add any pretend seer information? When everyone is seemingly doing it (although day 1 it was only 2 people who said anything, they just happened to have great guesses - then dimmer joins on day 2 cause violinist), you are gonna hide well amongst the crowd for at least a day.

I basically think you just need to always have a wolf lying about being a seer. If you don't, it hurts more when there are lots of real seers.

Most of all, you were unlucky that Ants and kut did such a great job quickly picking up the wolves who are dead and dying.

I agree with the last part for sure, they were clutch.

I was personally not around much day one. By the time I saw anything it was 3 pages long and i gave up trying to keep up. Then... I just kind of faded. Like I said, my heart wasn't really in this game.

The problem with your second paragraph, though, is there are FAR too many good players in these games that EASILY see through lies. Those are the ones that make the best wolves. Most people playing wolves can't keep all the nuances together long enough to slip by people like Zell and Alu... who can seemingly pick apart everything with ease. You want a real test of this? Have a game with no seers, but make sure everyone knows there are no seers. I'm willing to bet things go better for the wolves, though a solo killer role likely runs away with the game.

Just a hunch.

 

[Benzine]

The problem with your second paragraph, though, is there are FAR too many good players in these games that EASILY see through lies.

2/18 ain't that great honestly

but i definitely would've killed zell first haha

but don't forget the wolves have won plenty of the most recent games too. it's just the randomiser. i personally love it.

 

[Christina]

Sometimes the odds are just not in your favor. Not saying it was impossible to win, just harder. You play the hand your dealt the best you can.

I kind of look at these games like a psychology experiment. A random set of people assigned random jobs and given goals and you run the simulator to see what happens. I think it's why I like random amount of wolves, 3 to 5, that the town doesn't know how many there are. Keeps it more random and harder to meta game.

 

[Benzine]

one of the coupled members keeps getting protected by everyone else. there's more protectors in this game than seers.

 

[Benzine]

Sometimes the odds are just not in your favor. Not saying it was impossible to win, just harder. You play the hand your dealt the best you can.

I kind of look at these games like a psychology experiment. A random set of people assigned random jobs and given goals and you run the simulator to see what happens. I think it's why I like random amount of wolves, 3 to 5, that the town doesn't know how many there are. Keeps it more random and harder to meta game.

that's exactly right. it's like poker too. in poker, you only play one game of poker in your life, from the first until the last hand. then the game of poker, if you play enough, is just about getting to experience every scenario that can realistically occur, and doing better than everyone else as a total expressed by money after having done all those scenarios.

 

[Ants!]

Idea for a less random game: choose your role.

GM rolls the rng, but only for which players get which team. Then each player gets a PM like, for example: "you are one of the four strong villager roles. Pick one of the following."

 

[Jon]

Idea for a less random game: choose your roll.

We did that before. It was fun. I missed the game. I was sad.

 

[Ants!]

We did that before. It was fun. I missed the game. I was sad.

It's not fully meta though. You still have your team picked for you.

 

[Jon]

It's not fully meta though. You still have your team picked for you.

 

[VashTheStampede]

You and Vash were first, then Jon and Alu were next, I think.

Trying to light the Lantern. I dig.

 

[Benzine]

Trying to light the Lantern. I dig.

is this a blue prince or a noun or a both reference

cause i turned a lamp on and i hope it's important

 

[VashTheStampede]

is this a blue prince or a noun or a both reference

cause i turned a lamp on and i hope it's important

Noun reference but i did unlock stuff in the game by lighting things

 

[Benzine]

zell's good. way off, but i like his thinking.

 

[Benzine]

which means i'll have screwed up his interpretation of the game haha

 

[Ants!]

Lmao @Smacktard was cupid? How fitting

(I want more V-day stories, dammit)

 

[Ants!]

How can anyone be on the same team as a solo? I guess trickster means that Kat continues to be tagged as wolf team for the rest of the game after death, and that Ben really is a wolf?

 

[Ants!]

Also interesting if the cupided wolf is still alive and did not sway the other wolf away from killing its cupid master.

 

[Ants!]

Alu has it a little off: I didn't technically find Kat to be a wolf, I added Kat and FR to my sus list after finding them to be on different teams (meaning only that at least one, and possibly both, are not town).

 

[Ants!]

Nvm he pointed this out right afterward. Maybe I should finish reading it all before commenting. lol

 

[Ants!]

Oh yeah, my last detective check before death: zell and local are on the same team.

 

[Ants!]

Local must be telling the truth, given my check on him and also Benzine's statement about how many protector roles there are.

 

[Ants!]

Alu: ???
Ben: (claims flagger) Dimmerwit says same team as Kat.
canadaguy: claimed a killing role, I didn't catch which one
Dimmerwit: claimed detective, but said Ben is the same team as a trickstered solo
Fools Requiem: Claimed preacher. It's plausible, because Kat was a solo.
Local: claims a protector. Same team as the jailer.
Quagmire: claims preacher.
shortkut: claims aura seer. Hasn't been proven false yet. Different team from Jon, so not a wolf. Not either solo role either, so is town.
Zell: Jailer.

Still alive: Real trickster wolf plus one other wolf (one of these is in a cupid pair).

I think that's all accurate. Dimmerwits check needs clarification. Alu, Ben, FR, and Quagmire are most likely candidates for wolves. Canadaguy would be too, but he claims he can kill somebody so that's a bold claim to make if he can't back it up.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Nvm he pointed this out right afterward. Maybe I should finish reading it all before commenting. lol

Don't you dare

 

[Ants!]

Don't you dare

 

[Christina]

Also interesting if the cupided wolf is still alive and did not sway the other wolf away from killing its cupid master.

Spoiler: Encase you don't want to know things

Alpha

 

[Ants!]

Spoiler: Encase you don't want to know things

Alpha

I don't get it.

 

[Christina]

I don't get it.

The other one has a bigger vote. Also possible he didn't figure who the cupid was and thought he was killing a normal townie. Also just because the trickster puts the trick doesn't mean they get told what roll Kat was. So they may still think there is a solo killer out there.

I'm now leaning cupid couple townie is dimmerwit.

 

[Ants!]

I'm now leaning cupid couple townie is dimmerwit.

I considered this too, given his most recent check. Either Kat continues to show as wolf team after death, or he's lying to manipulate the lynch (and can just spin the trickster thing if they lynch a townie).

 

[Christina]

I'm wondering why go ahead and sell out the other wolf now? Sure it will take 2 days to lynch him. Which gives you 2 nights of town kills, but after that it's still the cupid pair up against 4 townies right? You hopefully push the lynch on a townie. 2 to 3. You are playing no wolf just need to find the solo. But that night you take a wolf kill which reveals there is still a wolf. 2 to 2. Tie the vote and last wolf kill. 2 to 1. You win the vote. That's perfect case which seems hard to pull off. No wiggle room for a protection or other seer ruining your day.

 

[Kat]

I'm not sure HOW we could have done anything about them. We had one kill per night and no seer role ourselves. We were plotting our kills just as blind faith-like as the town. And obviously with a double agent too, which makes things exponentially tougher.

You tell so many lies that nobody can tell who the seers are. You can't let them take control. (I agree it's difficult to do convincingly, but it is possible.)

Honestly, any of these Cupid type roles targeting a wolf essentially spells the end of the wolf team. Being able to come away with a win is tough enough, but with a double agent, it's nearly impossible.

I think that depends on how they play it. It's very difficult to win as the couple, and they can still win with their original team, and you kinda get an extra teammate before they full on betray you. It could help in some cases.

Trying to light the Lantern. I dig.

Yes, exactly. The blanket was the second most flammable thing, so that's why I got Ants too. Alu and Jon, I was just trying to pick people I hoped would still be alive when I burned.

Also just because the trickster puts the trick doesn't mean they get told what roll Kat was.

I thought they did? I'm too lazy to go read the dictionary.

I considered this too, given his most recent check. Either Kat continues to show as wolf team after death, or he's lying to manipulate the lynch (and can just spin the trickster thing if they lynch a townie).

I would assume I'd still show as Trickster for things like a violinist check. It makes sense to me.

I hope the town is afraid there's still an arsonist out there.

 

[Jon]

Alu and Jon, I was just trying to pick people I hoped would still be alive when I burned.

Lmao, what made you think I would survive? I mean, I’m honored but I seldom survive beyond the second day

I thought they did? I'm too lazy to go read the dictionary

We were not told your role. I don’t know if we’re supposed to know but we weren’t told at least.

 

[Kat]

Lmao, what made you think I would survive? I mean, I’m honored but I seldom survive beyond the second day

I am not good at being an arsonist lol.

 

[Jon]

I am not good at being an arsonist lol.

 

[Ants!]

I am starting to think it's pretty silly to come up with a list of numbers or fake names for night one. Might as well just ask each player if they choose to use their power blindly or not, and if they say yes then just do an RNG for them. Like:

"You are the aura seer. Would you like to use your power tonight?"
"Yes I would."
"Your seer check landed on Ants!. He has evil aura."

Less work for the GM and less confusion overall.

 

[Jon]

I am starting to think it's pretty silly to come up with a list of numbers or fake names for night one. Might as well just ask each player if they choose to use their power blindly or not, and if they say yes then just do an RNG for them. Like:

"You are the aura seer. Would you like to use your power tonight?"
"Yes I would."
"Your seer check landed on Ants!. He has evil aura."

Less work for the GM and less confusion overall.

Or just start on Day one and all actions are against the dead body

 

[Jon]

That sounded wrong.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I am starting to think it's pretty silly to come up with a list of numbers or fake names for night one. Might as well just ask each player if they choose to use their power blindly or not, and if they say yes then just do an RNG for them. Like:

"You are the aura seer. Would you like to use your power tonight?"
"Yes I would."
"Your seer check landed on Ants!. He has evil aura."

Less work for the GM and less confusion overall.

Yeah but sometimes giving a player false agency is more fun than not having any.

Plus we can make fun of people for towniekilling night 1 and whatnot.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Like sometimes when you keep sanding the rough edges off of something it loses all it's personality

 

[Ants!]

Like sometimes when you keep sanding the rough edges off of something it loses all it's personality

Like wolfbot.